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#40 Añadido por Beepe 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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I agree with you, Lexius. Right now I am working hard just to keep my head above water and not gaining anything. Right now this feels a lot more like a job than it does a game. Where's the fun?

#41 Añadido por Casy 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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I got 2 mentionable craft skills, one of them not 250. I found missions that even i can do. I dig an hour to get materials to do 3-5 of them (they got short cooldown). When i do one of those i can buy a pick, a tool and still got money for several tps and get some craft xp at the same time.

I can increase my dappers without much effort. I can't buy 3 600k packers a day.... and i can't scout for bosses hourly using tps. But that's it.

I think the new system is much more realistic. Make items that either players buy from npc shops or make them to satisfy the demand of npcs. Making items without any demand should not result in wealth.

There is one issue though i'd like to be adressed. 9999% is far too low as max resale prize now. I won't sell a good q250 amp for 25% of the reward of one completed mission.

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Casy * Foreign Secretary * Alliance of Honor
Intensive Care Bear

#42 Añadido por Subox 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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yeah working hard here and only see dapper going down instead. Already need to lend dapper from high lvl guild crafters who can make dapper quickly in the new system.
Kind of feels sad I made myself into a kittin hunter mastering almost all melee skills these years to hunt down the kittin now need to beg master crafters for some dappers to survive. (i never was rich on other server but could atleast afford my teleports.

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#43 Añadido por Subox 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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Casy (atys)
I think the new system is much more realistic. Make items that either players buy from npc shops or make them to satisfy the demand of npcs. Making items without any demand should not result in wealth.

I have realistic everyday at my work everyday, I play a game to relax and not to think constantly about needing dapper

Última edición por Subox (1 década hace)

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#44 Añadido por Indobi 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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The old economy was sad, the worst aspect of the game IMO. Things might be better with the new system. Too soon to say for sure. I am now having to make real choices about what to spend dapper on. That is a good game feature. My net worth is slowly increasing, which is as I would expect. So far so good. I don't object to doing missions. I can feel the pain for those who find that objectionalble. Personally I wander the wilderness prospecting and doing missions for wandering npc's and camp npc's when I encounter them. That does not get grindy for me. Progress is slow but I have no concerns about that.

But I do worry about the long term. Even at this rate I will eventually be rich enough that dapper are once again meaningless (although it will now happen more slowly than in the past). As Gilgamesh pointed out, the only way to keep things balanced in the long run would be recurring costs: rent for appartments, guild halls, outposts, meks, etc.

#45 Añadido por Kalean 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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I think that when occupations will be back, they will be the real way to make dappers (unless the devs nerf them too) as you get money for each task done, and quicker than the usual missions.

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Kaléan McFerty
Pirate of the Lakes

#46 Añadido por Lovestick 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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I too have recently cancelled my Subscrption, this new economy definately favours the high end crafters/diggers.
Like Subox I too DO NOT want tp spend all my game time doing the same boring missions over and over, Too much like a production line job for my liking.

Gilgameesh, man what a fantastic idea, be a real shame if they don't implement them,if they had have done so months ago then maybe they would not have done such a drastic change as the one they have.

I too have played different mmo's and in everyone you get the scroungers asking for whatever currency is in that game, as a hunter/gatherer that is what i would be reduced to as well, NEVER gonna happen which is why i have cancelled my Sub's.

#47 Añadido por Fyrosfreddy 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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What am I missing ? :0 ..... I'm not seeing this "big advantage" for high level crafters. Selling a jewel to an NPC used to bring just under 20k. Now a full set of 250 brings 4k. That's a 50;1 reduction.

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#48 Añadido por Gilgameesh 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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After few days, i can say that the concern are justified, but nothing is lost as devs are changing things on the way.
Actually, there are crafting missions that give hundreds of dappers for few stuff that can be done with basic mats.
I did a full run of corporal missions (so, very low level) and, apart of the fame i wanted, i got at the end around 90k.
And timers prevent people to grind for dappers.

Basically the concerns about having economy mission driven is correct.

Crafters being more advantaged compared to warriors or any other non crafter character sounds logic.
Anyone that don't want to craft and dig, will need help from crafters or they will need to run some mission. In the past, the crafter were the richest, and this is normal.

For warriors a possible solution could be to have some quartered mats with higher value, while leaving low values for dug mats. Maybe reintroduce dappers lost by bandits.

Anyway, looking far in the future, devs have to consider people will settle as in the past this way, just need more time but definitely this will not prevent an inflation in the future.
Because teleports and packers are too much important for the gameplay, it's not wise to make them too difficult to manage.

So, i still think we need recurring upkeeps in game and, possibly, rental storage. This storage could be linked to tribes and fame dependant, so devs could do 2 things in one hit: having something really in demand as dapper sinker, and giving more reasons to become a friend of a tribe.

Anyway, i'm feeling the same atmosphere of 2004, so i am happy.

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Gilgameesh
Legion of Atys

#49 Añadido por Tgwaste 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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Bitttymacod (atys)
As for NPC tasks -- I didn't join this game to do FedEx missions. I can do them in WoW. (Yeah, I played the WoW card, so sue me.)

-- Bittty

Im glad you played the WoW card. Ive been haing a blast in WoW lately with the new expansion. WAY more fun than playing this crap WG is trying to force down our throats.

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Tgwaste

#50 Añadido por Shackra 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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Kaetemi (atys)
Solo tp-dig-tp-tp-dig-tp is a joke, and I don't see what's so fun about that. If you want to exclusively harvest, get players in your guild to form a mektoub caravaan to travel the materials to your guild hall, way more challenging and fun.

I hell agree on that! Is more fun than using teleports.
Wanting stuff easy and quick as you can isn't fun, the excuse of casual players isn't a good one, after all, is a reflect from our consumists society. You can always play Angry Birds, though.

I dont see any relation between "fast playgame equals fun" (Are you have 10yrs old? :-/), not for me at least. There is more easy games like WoW that people can switch to, insteand of complaining and using vulgar expressions.

He dicho!

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«But my belief that miracles have happened in human history is not a mystical belief at all; I believe in them upon human evidences as I do in the discovery of America. Upon this point there is a simple logical fact that only requires to be stated and cleared up. Somehow or other an extraordinary idea has arisen that the disbelievers in miracles consider them coldly and fairly, while believers in miracles accept them only in connection with some dogma. The fact is quite the other way. The believers in miracles accept them (rightly or wrongly) because they have evidence for them. The disbelievers in miracles deny them (rightly or wrongly) because they have a doctrine against them. ...» ~G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy cont. http://tj-markdown-paste.herokuapp.com/posts/354428

#51 Añadido por Bitttymacod 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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Indobi (atys)
The old economy was sad, the worst aspect of the game IMO. Things might be better with the new system. Too soon to say for sure. I am now having to make real choices about what to spend dapper on. That is a good game feature. My net worth is slowly increasing, which is as I would expect. So far so good. I don't object to doing missions. I can feel the pain for those who find that objectionalble. Personally I wander the wilderness prospecting and doing missions for wandering npc's and camp npc's when I encounter them. That does not get grindy for me. Progress is slow but I have no concerns about that.

But I do worry about the long term. Even at this rate I will eventually be rich enough that dapper are once again meaningless (although it will now happen more slowly than in the past). As Gilgamesh pointed out, the only way to keep things balanced in the long run would be recurring costs: rent for appartments, guild halls, outposts, meks, etc.

I must respectfully and vigorously disagree with your first paragraph and agree with your second.

Everyone who has commented in this thread has fallen into the trap that the modern world has fallen into: Economy == Money. It just isn't true. Economy is just a description of how homins get the things they need. At the time of the reset, the economy was based on barter and on gifts. Right now... well, it's based on barter and gifts because people are having a hard time earning dappers.

In the end -- any economic system that is based on an infinite supply of raw materials will end up using barter and gifts. The Northwest Native Americans (who had a close to infinite supply of the raw materials they valued) had a word for it: potlatch. Your status was based on what you gave away to others. In our system pre-reset, that was such things as using two tps to run half-way across a region to rescue a friend in need, or giving a gift of a well-crafted set of jewels or an amp, or giving a new homin the money needed to buy a pack animal to allow himmer to set themselves up. This was a realistic economy for the world as it was. There were adjustments that could have made it more difficult (most of which had been and are being proposed by Gilgameesh), but the current system is NOT realistic.

The new system encourages a much more selfish (self-oriented might be a better phrase, but I think of it as selfish) point of view. As an other-oriented person both in real life and in game... I don't like it.

I do understand that a few changes have already been made, and I will shortly be back to see what they are.

(And I need to get my sig back...)

Última edición por Bitttymacod (1 década hace)

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#52 Añadido por Tgwaste 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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I completely agree with Bitty. Before reset I would have had no problem giving away a million dappers to a newb and I myself am still a newb. Now I wouldnt dream of it.

Just a side note to Shackra (more of a side question):

Do you think that WoW is easier than Ryzom? Im wondering why. Personally I think they stand the same. Neither are particularily challeging. I mean in the end its: do this to obtain that. any mindless child can play both these games and achieve something. Your comment seems more Fan-Boyish. IE: iPhone is cooler than Android. Just wondering about the mindset.

Última edición por Tgwaste (1 década hace)

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Tgwaste

#53 Añadido por Freier 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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Economy this, economy that, market economy is in the process of destroying the RL, why do we need a market economy in this game that did just fine without it.
Players keep comparing Ryzom to other mmos and thats wrong.
Just because other mmos are based on economy and quests doesnt mean its a good thing for Ryzom to imitate.
Ask yourselves what would you gain if Ryzom had an economy system like other mmos, how would that affect your gameplay, your fun and enjoyment of playing Ryzom.

Just like Bittymacod said, Ryzom had a barter economy similar to ancient tribal economies and it worked very well and it fitted the game perfectly, why change that.

The new system is not bad because it does not change much, it just gives players a bit of work to do for a while which is good, after that it will be back to usual, which i would say its a good thing.

#54 Añadido por Shackra 1 década hace Reportar | Citar[en] 

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Tgwaste (atys)
Do you think that WoW is easier than Ryzom? Im wondering why. Personally I think they stand the same. Neither are particularily challeging. I mean in the end its: do this to obtain that. any mindless child can play both these games and achieve something. Your comment seems more Fan-Boyish. IE: Apple is cooler than iPhone. Just wondering about the mindset.

Yes I do. Five-years-old-experience gamers of Ryzom supports such comparison.
But my point was, If you don't like Ryzom because the hard economy or because the game is "less for casual players", instead of complaining, you can always switch to another game like Wow or Angry Birds and delete Ryzom from your HD.

Now, The dappers aren't meaningless and barter economy can emerge from all this too.

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«But my belief that miracles have happened in human history is not a mystical belief at all; I believe in them upon human evidences as I do in the discovery of America. Upon this point there is a simple logical fact that only requires to be stated and cleared up. Somehow or other an extraordinary idea has arisen that the disbelievers in miracles consider them coldly and fairly, while believers in miracles accept them only in connection with some dogma. The fact is quite the other way. The believers in miracles accept them (rightly or wrongly) because they have evidence for them. The disbelievers in miracles deny them (rightly or wrongly) because they have a doctrine against them. ...» ~G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy cont. http://tj-markdown-paste.herokuapp.com/posts/354428
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