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it was not belittleing anyone. and of course anyone can post their feelings and opinion. but a statement like: "ryzom has now a mission driven gameplay" - is imo overreacting and just not true.
but ok. i'm taking my words about "drama" back. sorry for this.

im pretty sure there will be more gameplay balancing on this topic, sooner or later.
@callysto: i think everyone has own definition what a sandbox game is. ask 10 people, you'll get 10 answers.

I agree with most criticism here.
It seems the devs don't mhave a real clue about economy, despite me and most of old players, have suggested a lot of things during years.

First, you have to answer this question: in a game player driven, resources centered, what the money should means? Money should be the way to buy "services", while the resources (looted, crafted, digged) are, in reality, the real money. So, how to avoid resource trades in favour of money?
Easy: Money don't use bulk, resources yes.

What are the "services" every homin would pay for? Easy: apartments, guild halls, guilds as organization and, most important, storage.
What you have done, devs, is clear to anyone: you are forcing people to grind their life to get what they need for a normal homin life. It is as someone in real life force us to work hard to buy bread. This is totally wrong.
What is needed to live in Atys should be affordable, while everything you need for a luxury life, should cost a lot. Simple.

For instance, the idea of different tools is correct, but the way you have cut the income is not.
To make a guild now is cheaper than before. There is no upkeep (lol how many times we told you about this subject) for apartments nor for guild halls.

You MUST introduce recurring payments in game, otherwise you'll never fix economy. In real life, everyone make calculations to know how much money they need at end of month to afford their payments. So simple.
I need an apartment, and if i know i have to pay x dappers each 15 days, i know i need the money and i will start selling stuff intead of giving for free. And this is the same for everyone.

Make high upkeep for apartment and guild halls (with guild halls very high, so every member must participate to pay it), make guilds forming, expensive, so people need to jopin together to create one, in advance.
What we need to play should be reasonable, what we need to become "v.i.p.", should be costly: apartments, guild halls, animals (except the mount i agree with the lower price).

Outposts. They are a big luxury: a guild want one? Okay, you fight for it AND, once you have it, you must afford a lot of expenses (it's logic) to maintain it at work. Very high upkeeps for them, drills should cost a lot.
Storage: add rental storage at capitals and Outposts (simple to add a "summon point" similar to ring terminal), make Outpost storage different from Guild Hall storage and RAISE that prices.
I could continue, but if you devs, really don't think this is the right way to do things, ryzom will fail soon.

Don't turn the game in a grind fest for money, Ryzom is not such game. And we don't want goldsellers here.

I hope, at least, you admit, that actual economy system is more broken than the old one, in a way the players cannot fix by themselves (trading in different ways) but in a way to drive out of game the players frustrated.

Regards.

i agree with Gilga ...

btw i posted on "idea for ryzom" some idea how to spend more dappers... maybe some ideas are really worth to have a look at ... maybe... i think there are thousands of ways to get the dapper to more worth again ... think there are some easy ways...but what we have now is in my eyes the badest idea ever....i said yesterday to someone ... Ryzom is now like Germany...earning less(work) and paying much(tax)...so everytime we need to spin 1 dapper twice to think about what we buy with it which helps us in life...u buy the wrong stuff then ur are fu...ed...

For the RL comparison ... if you work on something noone needs and noone asked for, you'll need to work all day to afford some bread. I think it's fine the way it is. We'll find new ways to get some dappers.

Tools have been reduced in cost and that's good, almost 200k was way too much.

I agree that the economy changes are annoying. Previous economy was fine.

Hint for those whining about economy changes. The key word is: missions. There is plenty of mission givers in every capital, namely corporals and messengers. The payouts are nothing to write home about, but it's enough to make starter capital. Few runs and you can afford a mount, q250 pick and a tool. I guess you do know what to do next with all these things.

I approve the changes. Hopefully, the days of hippy economy came to the end and will never be back. Finally the devs taking steps to making dappers the real ingame money, instead of meaningless green number at the bottom of your inventory. Good job, thanks.

PS: Anybody up for pathetic crying about goldsellers coming into the game? I want some good laugh.

Before you talk about crying maybe make yourself known who you really are done some inquiries and nobody even knows you ingame (might have asked the wrong ppl but asked quite alot)
And you can stick those missions where the sun doesn't shine, ryzom isn't a quest game if i wanna quest i'll login to guildwars 2 where the questing is atleast kind of fun. And again the seccond thing you say buy tool and pick => well not everyone likes to dig it was sandbox game where everyone  could do what they wanted and could build their char the way they wanted now it's impossible.

Actually, something that might actually work and even emulate real world economics popped into my mind. Apartment, tool and vendor prices scaling to amount of dappers that are in circulation on active player accounts.

So, if there are lots of daps in circulation, prices scale automatically up and if amount of player gross wealth is small, prices scale down. In order to prevent misuse (very rich player deactivating account and moving daps on that), the system should lag a bit, week or two.

Oh and keep tp ticket prices as they are now! :D

Hint: Dyron, Avendale, Natae, 250 jungle city (idunnolol) Overseers gives hundreds of thousands of dappers for crafting missions.

prices could keep increasing, that would be fun! :p

Please don't forget that this is a new change and is more than likely going to be adjusted/tweaked as needed based on how we react to it and the discretion of the game makers, we have to give them some support and trust too, complaining is legitimate, it improves the overall quality of the new system to have feedback, opinions are great, suggestions can help, so far i can tell that they do pay attention to the players but it is far too early to be panicking

let's observe and make notes and compare notes, at the moment the this stands out is:

missions = must have for dappers that are in low circulation and mostly useless at the moment, and if you dont need it dont pick it up because its just going to waste inventory space, the merchant wont care about mats you loot or dig even if you craft them, thats how it looks so far to me, lets see how it turns out.

I see atleast the tp prices got changed already did a new trek last night and all of a sudden tp's that I payed 10k for where now 1k/1.5k/4k (So ppl doing first reconisense got pricy tp's)

I've been doing that for 8 years by paying my subs, look where that got me!

No panic involved, simply not sure I'm prepared to re-sub and wait for something that might, or might not, be Coming Soon anymore.

Well, i didn't cried as someone stated, but probably he was just a troll.

I don't need anyone telling me what i can write and what i cannot (unless i break some rule): i'm playing ryzom since 2004, almost always subbed, with only some months unsubbed in 8 years, so I feel myself entitled to express my opinion, as i always did in the past, sometimes welcoming devs decisions, some other time criticising them.

Even people almost new to the game have all the rights to express their opinion (they could have a more clean vision, after all).

I tried to be constructive while criticizing the choices made around economy.

I love Ryzom so I will play it anyway, but I just wish devs do the right things.

If this system will work as it is now, I will be happy as anyone else. I know devs can tweak the system over time.

Just a point: some answered about missions, and seems they have not read all the post, because some people just expressed some worrie about being forced to do missions.

I have not said anything related to missions, because i still think that what i wrote is correct, in a general meaning, just because that's what you have in most MMO, and it works already. What I wrote is not a fact, just a concern.

Cannot judge yet the impact about missions, because I don't have, at the moment, dappers problems. Once i start having issues (dappers are coming down pretty fast), i will check how to gain more, and if it's affordable.

Agree to Gilga,

for getting hundreds of thousands of dappers in craftmissions you have to have at least 2 crafting trees at
far beyond 200+. To do more than one mission a day, you have to be master in several totally different trees
(e.g. Ammo & Armor are often combined).
The "old" crafters don't care about. They don't have problems with dapper furthermore. But the "not-veterans",
which are the majority atm are in trouble anyway.