IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Yes, you can master every skill without using cats or op mats.

You can also master every skill without visiting any level-250 zones. Sure, you won't level as fast as everyone else, but that doesn't matter, right? Slightly extreme example and only somewhat related, but maybe it reinforces the point?

For everyone else, the availability of outpost produce means some emphasis on obtaining those products, to stay on equal footing. This means PvP is required for a benefit to PvE. To stay comparable with everyone else.

If I'm in a team with a friend who is using cats, but I am not, that friend will surpass me. Ordinarily not so bad, but if we have to move to targets that I'm no longer able to damage, I have become a hindrance to my friend. Either I have to work twice as hard to keep up with my friend, or my friend has to group with someone else.

Make outpost produce, obtained through the efforts of PvP, only affect PvP (or primarily focused on PvP activities), or remove it. You and Meagon had already discussed outpost battles "for fun" in a past thread somewhere. Surely you wouldn't complain if all outposts became "just for fun" instead of ways for those interested in PvP to have advantages that those uninterested in PvP do not?

And you would remove most of the behind-the-scenes enmity between players at the same time.

Without saying I'd prefer it over Ryzom's PvP, I must mention LotRO already has the only possible model for having PvP without splitting the community.

In Ryzom terms, it works like Erizon's Kitin battle ground idea, with the added feature that everyone has the option to at any time control a kitin in the battlezone, instead of their regular player character.

No fun at all. I don't work hard to level my skills just to hug a Karavan .

*Hugs Entendu 'with 2 daggers in hand'*

I hug Karas everyday... on the battle fields I keep them warm with fire spells. <3

No seriously, even a tree-hugger like me would be sad without PvP. ^^; Removing the Outpost battles is a bad idea. Making the outpost sommething else than just a drill that fills your Guildhall with junk (read bulky flower invasion) would be awesome, though.

I don't know about that... I think making outposts more customisable would make guilds get more attached to their outposts, thereby adding more drama to the PvP.

I'd love to see customisable outposts according to the original model, though. That is, non-PvP outposts, which guilds take by performing some PvE guild-mission, and lose again if they can no longer maintain the upkeep.

No, I'm not saying I want to get rid of the PvP outposts, I'm just saying I don't see why we couldn't have different kinds of outposts.

What about a mix of it?

do PVP to get op, then do guild missions to keep op producing, if you can't keep upkeep you loose op and it becomes a rogue op everyone can attack and the defenders will just be simple npc's, are you able to keep upkeep then other guilds can still attack but you can do like in the past and buy npc's and even more.

ps. 4-6h mission once a week with guild should be good i guess so ppl with alot op's get a hard time and the higher q the op the harder the mission and should only allow guild members on the missions (we all know this can be exploited but atleast it gives some kind of idea)

On second thought though, that would suck for the last member of the dieing guild feeling obligated to do all the upkeep by themself to hold onto the outpost "in case the others come back" :P

According to the original manual... all outposts would belong to tribes.
To take over an outpost, there'd've been a period of time where guilds can apply for the mission of taking over the outposts, then the guild with the best fame for the tribe gets the mission. The guild then has 2 weeks to take over the outpost either by grinding missions, or by basically killing the tribe.

Outposts would only give a guild access to the special guild missions of that outpost.
And the only reward from that would be the GUILD XP points, and some fame points.

This guild xp would then be usable for buying guildhall improvements, such as special guild-only trainers giving access to special skills (tribe-specific crafting plans, etcetera (outposts belong to tribes)), and npc merchants for selling your guild member's stuff.

Was originally no PvP involved at all. :p

I'd like to see the guild xp points being implemented someday though...

damm that nearly sounds quite good too XD

would be nice indeed, as Kaetemi indicates.
A mix might include each guild being able to own an outpost (and only one), with there being a limited number of drills Atys wide over which those people interested in pvp can fight battles in an organised setting (maybe like arena tournaments).
The winner of the battle gets the right to build a drill on their outpost, which will produce products until such a time as they are defeated by another guild.

Making teams of fixed size would make the whole thing more interesting, with less drama, as it becomes more of a test of skills than an effort to simply swarm the defender, an effort that in the past has been accompanied by attempts outside of the op wars themselves to get people to quit playing so as to weaken the opposing faction to the point they can't put up enough people to win the next war.

Even though this game isn't a true sandbox game, artificial restrictions are never a good thing. Particularly since you'd still have the "meta game" that you describe happening behind the scenes. (Disclaimer: I'm a member of the faction that is currently on the losing end of "the swarm").

As long as the outposts have something that benefits just about every facet of the game, selfishness and greed will bubble up to the surface and define how people interact with one another. It boggles my mind, and still stings a little, that people will throw away friendships and bonds and unity because of some pixels in a game.

I still maintain that to keep PvP and still bring things back to the "fun" level, remove the benefits from the outposts and bring them back in a way that not only makes sense within the game (digging for cats?) but also depends only on player skill within the game, not behind the scenes.

Removed off-topic posts

Huh, I really like this idea, though I'd put a slightly different spin on it.

The outposts would be obtained according to the non-PvP model Kaetemi explains, and guilds could then attack eachother's outposts with the objective of stealing the drill. So the PvP would be the same as it is now, but if you win you don't take the outpost, just the drill, to put up at your own outpost. And one outpost could have several drills, ofcourse, if the owners are succesful at stealing more than one.

Ooh, I like that idea of a limited amount of drills, and stealing them from each other.

Also, I'd like to see outposts be more village-like, so you can for example put permanent guards on them, to rescue you from mobs, like are in the cities, hire merchants, etcetera, for a weekly price in dappers, so you can have your own little trading village in the middle of nowhere. Or you could hire a group of bandits instead, and make it a bandit outpost that's unfriendly against every non-guildie. Anyone coming near just gets killed, hahaha. :)