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#134 Multilingual 

Multilingual | English | [Français]

Réunion de Ryzom Forge (5 août 2019)

Date: lundi 5 août, 19:30 UTC (21:30 CEST)

Lieu :
  • Atys, sur le canal public Forge (ouvrir le WebIG (Ctrl+W) et cliquer sur le bouton "RF" à côté des drapeaux de langue)
ou
  • chat.ryzom, canal #pub-forge (https://chat.ryzom.com/channel/pub-forge)

Durée : 1.5 heure

Participants : tous les joueurs de Ryzom le désirant.

Nature : réunion d'information, de questions / réponses et de feedback.

Sujet : Projets terminés, en test et prêts à être testés.
Ordre du jour
  • Auto-traduction en jeu via DeepL
  • Promotion d'août et Jeux d'Atys
  • Retour aux sources du jeu : projet Storyline
  • Amélioration et enrichissement de Ryzom Wiki
  • Passage en open source des fichiers de traduction
  • Retour de l'ancienne version de NH
  • Recrutement

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tamarea (5 years ago)

---

Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com

#135 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français

Ryzom Forge meeting report - 5. 8. 2019

Agenda
  • In-game auto-translation via DeepL
  • August Promotion and Atys Games
  • Back to the game's roots: Storyline project
  • Improvement and enrichment of Ryzom Wiki
  • Move to open source for translation files
  • Return of the old version of NH
  • Recruitment

In-game auto-translation via DeepL

Tamarea, 19:50 UTC:
The integration of the DeepL translator in play will be done in 5 steps:
  • Step 1: test in the around channel (in progress)
    DeepL is currently being tested in the "around" channel. It automatically translates into the interface language what is said on the channel. Supported languages: English, German, Spanish, Russian and French.
  • Step 2:"dev" work for DeepL to manage the translation between the game channels and chat.ryzom.com.
  • Step 3: Create the configuration interface and add options in the chat window

    The interface should allow you to:
    • choose if you accept to be translated (see GDPR)
    • choose the channels to translate (example: surroundings, guild...)
    • choose the languages to be translated.
    • choose the language in which you want the translation to be done.
    The options in the chat window will allow you to:
    • enable / disable translations (on/off)
    • identify the translated sentences (different color?)
    • display the original version of the translated sentences
    • (subject to) see the translation of a sentence initially displayed in its original language
  • Step 4: DeepL integration on dynamic and regional channels
    This includes universe channels.
    We will certainly take this opportunity to remove language-specific uni-universe channels, which will no longer be useful.
  • Step 5: DeepL integration on guild, team, league and private message channels.
Please note that we will then be able to activate automatic translation into all languages supported by DeepL (currently Portuguese, Polish, Dutch, Italian) if necessary.
Now it's your turn to talk: what do you think about the addition of DeepL in game and the ongoing test on the around channel?
Tryroamer, 19:59 UTC:
i understand that for normal purposes no language specific channels be in case of DeepL success and ingame integration as proposed, but i would nevertheless welcome having the possiblility of splitting off of the one language origin chat to an own channel tab within the main chat for special purposes, naturally, while still allowing and following the chat originating out of all other languages within the uni chat
Heernis, 20:05 UTC:
Do you mean that there should be a translated channel and an untranslated channel ingame?
Tryroamer, 22:07 UTC:
Not really, but there is yet a need as i see it, for me to at times isolate the chat originating in the one language into its own channel, otherwise the other conversation might / would stretch out the particular thought thread out of recognition (fifo principle)
Heernis, 20:11 UTC:
ok, simply a hint, or as a overlay, as with the items, of the original text, would suffice, wouldn't it?
Hayt, 20:13 UTC:
The problem of double translation. Can the translator determine the language in which the phrase is spoken?
Now the language from which the text is translated and the language into which the text is translated is tied to the interface language
But the player uses one interface language, and can speak several
In this case, I noticed that if the language of what was said differs from the interface language, then the translator first translates the text into the interface language, and then only further
Tamarea, 20:17 UTC:
From my experience on https://www.deepl.com, DeepL usually determines the language of the text on its own. This is not yet the case during the test, because for the moment it is the language of the interface of the writer that is taken into account.
Tamarea, 20:25 UTC:
What do you think (briefly) about the integration of DeepL into the game?
Scooby, 20:26 UTC:
Super
Krinseus, 20:30 UTC:
Very convenient, especially for those who do not speak other languages than their own.
Heernis, 20;33 UTC UTC:
If you use no native slang, write full sentences and don't make mistakes while writing... it could be usefull, otherwise there could be a lot of misunderstandings. Well also lets say... "Rendor" will be translate into "Verkäufer" (Reseller) in german. Or Ranger > "Waldläufer" (Forestrunner) ... ^^ But overall, a good thing for communication, so it is far from perfect.


Q: Would it be possible to have exceptions or pattern for ryzom specific names, cities, regions etc in the future? Maybe on client-side?
A: It's planned

Q: I think it very convenient, more than come-go with Google. And a question: will the translation of /tell texts come soon?
A: It should be as fast as the around channel.

Tamarea, 20:34 UTC:
Thank you for your feedback. Let's move on to the next topic!

August promotion and Atys games

Tamarea, 20:34 UTC:
Announcements on the forumOther publicationsWhat are your feedback on the promotion and games? Who wants to speak?
Scooby, 20:39 UTC:
As for me, I think 5,000 choice tokens is very very much for an earning. The water bombs had very good press :)
Kiwalie, 20:42 UTC:
Great, the water bombs! The ultimate weapon of Rangers!
Hayt, 20:43 UTC:
5000 tokens sounds big quantity, but it's only 141/200 of plushie and 0/250 of zig and it's imposible to waterbomb bosses
Kiwalie, 21:24 UTC:
I just want to say a big thank you to the ryzom team for the August event, memorable evening with players from all nations and factions on the rendors :)

Storyline project

Tamarea, 20:50 UTC:
We return to the basics of Ryzom by placing the advance of history at the centre of the game.
Thus, instead of having on one side events, and on the other side heterogeneous additions, we will have regular gameplay additions that will logically follow the progress of History, over the events. With, of course, a role for the "Power to Players", since the turn of events will depend in part on your actions!
Before embarking on a Season that will bring many new features (we already have a number of them in mind!), we chose to start with a Season allowing us to finally finish the unfinished gameplay content. You'll learn more soon!

Q: Whereas I agree that Storyline should be of top priority, where does this project leave everything that was being worked on? Everything that's already been announced like: OP changes, Nexus Reloaded, Ranged fight fine tuning and so on... Also Pocket Worlds, Boss in a Pocket, and and and? Do we have a status update on those projects? Are they aborted?
A: These additions are still scheduled. They will be largely implemented as Storyline progresses. However, some content, such as OP refactoring and rebalancing shooting weapons, will be used in parallel. The first step of Pocket Words, "Guild Islands" is already in game. We will now improve it. On the other hand, "Boss in a Box" is put back on hold because the one who developed it is no longer available.

Moniq, 21:01 UTC:
We will call for players to help with Outpost battle changes and Ranged weapon changes in some time. We need to finish many other changes and fixing and also well prepare a series of tests.

Q: Is the storyline the same as we were following before?
A: I won't reveal anything more for the moment! ;)

Tryroamer, 21:08 UTC:
I have followed with some interest the discussion in the forums about just what roleplay actually is on Atys. One aspect that I feel has been in the past but seems nowadays completely absent: one's own personal rp history ingame. I hope that such become respected again where and by whomever practiced
Tamarea, 21:17 UTC:
DeepL could contribute to this by facilitating roleplay between players from different languages.

Improvement and enrichment of Ryzom Wiki

Tamarea, 21:17 UTC:
I give the floor to the contributors!
Nilstilar, 21:24 UTC:
What I can say about the wiki, is that I published 231 articles about the plants of Atys since a month from a document provided by Namcha. But Dorothée, Heernis and Zorroargh are working hard, too.
Heernis, 21;48 UTC:
hm... the wiki is accessible through mobile phones, but a mobile css layout is not available for it (for better view)

Q: A reminder of the url?
A: Main page, Atys commons, Flora

Q: I'd like to know if an android version of the client is under development, sice I read something about it posted a yaer ago in the forum. So, is there any dev team working on it, or is it abandoned since?
A: We do not have enough developers nor testers for current supported platforms. It is maybe a project (or former project) of Ryzom Core. That user never shared code, so no android client.

Move to open source for translation files

Tamarea, 22:45
The largest translation files of the ingame text, which were still private, have just switched to open source. So much so that all translations are now in open source! You can find them here: https://bitbucket.org/ryzom/ryzomdatas/src/default/translations/

Return of the old version of NH

Tamarea, 21:54
It is imminent... provided we find a tester on Windows!
Which introduces the last topic: recruitment!

Recruitment

Tamarea, 21:58 UTC:
We are looking for volunteer testers (Windows, Linux, Mac). Indeed, the current lack of testers means that features and patches remain in test for a long time, which delays their application. In particular, we are looking for players who are familiar with OP battles in order to test "OP refactoring". For more information, please contact Moniq or Tamarea. To apply, please contact Tamarea (on chat.ryzom.com or by email to tamarea@ryzom.com).
Currently, future additions and maintenance are blocked for far too long in the test phase due to a lack of testers. Which is a pity! (This is currently the case for NH.) We need testers on all 3 platforms: Windows, Linux and Mac.
We are looking for two types of testers:
  • "Generalist" testers for general tests.
  • "Specialist" testers for precise tests. For example, tests on OPs, or on shooting weapons, or on PvP....

Q: What knowledge is required to be a tester?
A: You should have some knowledge of the game, be patient and expect long and boring work :). Any advanced knowledge in IT is welcome but not necessary. There are not any real requirements, if you have will, you can learn what is needed and how to test. Oh and you should be dutiful and careful.

Q: Which level is required for testing? I start playing three days ago...
A: You can join today, however the testing will spoil your game experience so maybe wait some time and enjoy playing first. It is not about your character levels, the testing is being done on separate testing servers and we have some tools for help. But again, I think it is too soon. Enjoy the game and get familiar with it. You can join any time. We have a great need for testers, but we can wait for you and let you have the pleasure of discovering the game!

Tamarea, 22;03 UTC:
You can contact me on Ryzom's chat or by email at tamarea@ryzom.com when you feel ready. :)

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Maupas (5 years ago) | Reason: Some typos in FR text

#136 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français

Ryzom Forge meeting (August 19th, 2019)

Date: monday, August 19th, 19:30 UTC (21:30 CEST)

Meeting places:
  • Atys, on the public channel Forge (open the WebIG (Ctrl+W) and click on the "RF" button next to the language flags)
or
  • chat.ryzom, channel #pub-forge (https://chat.ryzom.com/channel/pub-forge)

 

Duration: 1.5 hour

Participants: all Ryzom players wishing to join.

Nature: informative, questions & answers and feedback meeting.

Topic: Added, in test and ready to be tested projects.
Agenda
  • OP refactoring: recruitment of testers
  • Range weapon balancing: recruitment of testers
  • DeepL: give your feedbacks on external sites and social networks!
  • Publications of websites
  • Ryzom wiki (maybe)

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tykus (5 years ago)

---

Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com

#137 Multilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français

Ryzom Forge meeting report – August 19th, 2019

Refactoring of the outpost battles : recruitment of testers

Tamarea (RT) – 19:39 UTC
Phase 1 of outpost battles modification project is currently being tested.
We are looking for more testers to join the group, whether as experts of outpost battles or as mere participants.
The tests take place on the test server (logic!), directly with the player account, which then receives a special "beta tester" access and ad hoc equipment.
If you like PvP, come and try it while having fun! To apply, contact Tamarea (by RC direct messaging or e-mailing to tamarea@ryzom.com).

This is followed by an exchange between those in the audience who have already participated in these tests, which confirms the pleasure we take in it and that Tamarea concludes with a “Join us, we need you! And come and protect me from them. Help!”

Range weapon balancing: recruitment of testers

Tamarea (RT) – 19:49 UTC
You are experts in shooting weapons and dream of seeing them finally balanced?
Come and join the group of testers! You can test the different shooting weapons in PvE as well as in classic PvP and/or outpost battles.
You will have access to the test server with your player account as a beta tester.
To apply, contact Tamarea (by RC direct messaging or e-mailing to tamarea@ryzom.com).

DeepL: give your feedbacks on external sites and social networks!

Tamarea (RT) – 19:57 UTC
The integration of the DeepL translator into Ryzom is still being tested. The translation is currently limited to the AROUND channel and is not yet configurable, but as the test is very conclusive, we will soon move on to the next steps, as announced here: https://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/28116/1 35#135
Summary:
• Step 2: Development work to enable DeepL to manage the translation between the ingame channels and chat.ryzom.com.
• Step 3: Creation of the configuration interface and addition of options in the chat window.
• Step 4: Integration of DeepL on dynamic, universes and region channels.
• Step 5: DeepL integration on guild, team, league and private message channels.
• Step 6: Add exceptions for words and names specific to Atys, such as place names etc.
This integration is of interest and is very closely watched outside Ryzom, both on social networks and on websites.
So, I call on you to help spread the word by publishing, commenting, giving your opinion about this addition on social networks and websites.

This is followed by several positive comments from attendees and a precision from Tamarea: while the translation of the emotes channel (/em) is also planned, DeepL will not allow the automatic production of meeting minutes in five languages!

Publications of websites

Tamarea (RT) – 20:08 UTC
Below are the publications of two websites:
• https://massivelyop.com/2019/08/16/ryzom-tests-multi-language-chat-tran slator-and-whips-up-a-new-map
• https://mmo.jeuxonline.info/actualite/56716/ryzom-veut-integrer-traduct eur-automatique
Do not hesitate to comment and/ore share them!
Your challenge, if you take it up: make more comments and publications about Ryzom than there are beers drunk by the Trykers!
Then don't waste any time! On your fingers, get set, go! Before you start, though, think about sending me a message to apply as a tester! This one is the meeting of challenges ! ;)

Ryzom Wiki

Zorroargh (WT) – 20:24 UTC
I am very happy and honored to see an increase in what is the most important for a wiki: its frequentation.
I note that it is being consulted more and more, thanks to all the volunteers who contribute to it.
I give the floor to Tryroamer, not without asking you to applaud the whole small team, of which Tryroamer himself is a member.

Tryroamer then proposes the use of a particular title (a kind of "university degree" – from Bachelor to PhD) to acknowledge the greater or lesser knowledge of the Lore by the character-players. The idea is that the desire of players so titled to upgrade would be for them a powerful incentive to contribute to the Ryzom Wiki.
On which Namcha points out that the Lore Team (of which he is a member) has already proposed a list of titles intended to recognize the volunteers' involvement in their character (and therefore in the Lore).
Others then ask the question of the exams to be organized to obtain such degrees, of their display in game, etc....
The meeting turns into brainstorming (Moniq
dixit) and ends in a hubbub at 21:09 UTC as Thols and Tryroamer agreed to continue the conversation in private.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Maupas (5 years ago)

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#138 Multilingual 

Multilingual | Français | [English]

Ryzom Forge Meeting (30 september 2019 - 19:30 UTC / 21:30 CEST)



Location: Atys, on the public channel Ryzomforge (open the WebIG (Ctrl+W) and click on the "RF" button next to the language flags), or on chat.ryzom, channel #pub-forge (https://chat.ryzom.com/channel/pub-forge )

Duration: 1.5 hour

Participants: all Ryzom players wishing to join.

Nature: informative, questions & answers and feedback meeting.

Topic: Added, in test and ready to be tested projects.
Agenda:

- Celebrations of Ryzom's 15th anniversary: summary.

- Update on the progress of the projects under test: daily missions, OP refactoring, shooting weapons.

- Coming soon: launch of Season 2 of the Storyline.

Edited 11 times | Last edited by Tykus (5 years ago)

#139 [en] 

Tykus

Ryzom Forge Meeting (30 september 2019 - 19:30 UTC / 21:30 CEST)


15:30 EDT / 12:30 PDT on a Monday... why are these things never when any non-EU player with a day job can attend?

Last edited by Gidget (5 years ago)

---

Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#140 [fr] 

Sorry Gidget, our agenda is really full, we have not really other place in :)

#141 Multilingual 

Why would the agenda be any more or less full if the meeting time was scheduled to accommodate non-EU players?

#RyzomSense

---



Everone has an opinion, and of course are entitled to have one, but others are equally entitled to decide whether they choose to agree or disagree. Acting like a complete Muppet isn't likely going to change minds or win support :)

#142 [en] 

Tykus
Sorry Gidget, our agenda is really full, we have not really other place in :)

Apology not accepted; it's years too late for a simple "Sorry" to suffice.

The entire time I've been here, nearly 7 years, it seems like the agenda has ALWAYS been too full to listen to non-EU players. It's bad enough that we get shouted down in the forums for not being deep-immersion RP, but to be flat-out told that we have no place at the table is a slap in the face... and also expected since it's gone on so long that quite a number of us have been left with no choice but to feel that there is an active dislike of non-EU players.


If you truly are sorry then don't tell us; show us. Even a token gesture at intercontintental coordination, like simply moving the meeting back a day to Sunday where there is at least a chance that players from both sides of the Atlantic can attend without having to quit our day jobs, would go a long way.

---

Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#143 [en] 

Gidget
... but to feel that there is an active dislike of non-EU players.

Hi Gidget,


It's not a "dislike of non-EU players"... It's rather a time range issue - even rather a lack of time at all.


Most of people from the team are volontiers. Some of them are working (night for US).
I am French, I am in France - no time range issue - and I feel like they need help... but the fact is: it's not easy to help them...
The code is very complex: when you touch here, it break there... and worse I heard that some (volontiers) dev players used the code to cheat :/

Only homins who know very very well Atys can help.
It gives me the impression that the game is held together with bits of string and a piece of tape.

But I don't see any "dislike of non-EU players"...

The series of "Please wait" (at 5 am French time) is still ongoing ?

---



Mon profil sur le wiki Francais

https://fr.wiki.ryzom.com/wiki/Utilisatrice:Craftjenn


Craftjenn, Ranger

#144 [en] 

Bubbason
Why would the agenda be any more or less full if the meeting time was scheduled to accommodate non-EU players?

#RyzomSense

I think Tykus means their calendar is too full, not the agenda for the meeting - which is how I read it at first and I think you did too Bubbason.

I also would much rather this had been on a weekend as, predictably, I was unable to make it last night due to work. Please can the next one be arranged for a weekend? Fix it in the diary now?

#145 [en] 

IMHO the meeting should be held by the support from NA.
don't understand why it isn't the case yet, been a while the server's merged.

You do one meeting with the EU support, and same day a meeting with NA support + (optional) EU that do not sleep yet.

---

#146 [en] 

Craftjenn
Hi Gidget,

It's not a "dislike of non-EU players"... It's rather a time range issue - even rather a lack of time at all.

Most of people from the team are volontiers. Some of them are working (night for US).
I am French, I am in France - no time range issue -
Are you saying the majority of the team work at their day jobs on Sundays? I mean, I've worked a lot of weird schedules before in my life, but I find the odds of that rather unlikely considering how many cultures consider Sunday a day of rest. In fact, a little research into French labor laws lowers the odds even further.
Craftjenn
... but the fact is: it's not easy to help them...The code is very complex: when you touch here, it break there...
Naturally. That is how code works.

But it's not entirely coding; you need a goal to code towards. Part of the reason for dialog is to find a middle ground between what the design team wants and what the code team says is possible. There's some game design elements, and you don't need to be a code monkey to have ideas about game design. Ideas some may want to discuss in real-time with those that may be able to refine and/or implement those ideas but can't.
Craftjenn
Only homins who know very very well Atys can help...
I will give you the benefit of a doubt, but how that came across was that you are saying that anyone who can't even read most of the lore because it is in a language we can't read and has not been translated cannot help and thus need not be considered.

Think about the implications of that. Think how nationalistic that sounds, and ask yourself it that is the image you want to continue to project. (I say "continue to" because I am far from the only one who thinks that.) Then ask yourself how much has happened over the last 7 years to make people like me have the views that we do. Think long and hard. And while you're thinking, read my sig-block a few times and realize that I am speaking for more people than just myself.
Craftjenn
But I don't see any "dislike of non-EU players"...
I am not saying there is outright malice. In fact, I doubt there is any ill intent. But a lot of folks who never experience racism deny it even exists because they were never on the receiving end. They don't realize their privilege, or the damage they do by perpetuating bad behavior.

Do you see how, "Only homins who know very very well Atys can help.", is insulting? Whether you see it or not does not change the fact that it is. And continuing to have the meetings at a time that excludes those that already feel insulted is just rubbing salt in the wound. If that is not the intent, then lets work towards a compromise that makes it feel like Ryzom is more of a global game by admitting that the EU is not the only place that has good ideas, coding skill, or opinions that matter.
Revvy
IMHO the meeting should be held by the support from NA.
don't understand why it isn't the case yet, been a while the server's merged.

You do one meeting with the EU support, and same day a meeting with NA support + (optional) EU that do not sleep yet.
Honestly, a great compromise. If moving the meetings to a day that most people on both sides of the Atlantic have off isn't practical, then multiple meetings would work.(I still wonder what it is about Sunday evenings in the EU that's more important than the ability to pay rent or eat is for us that makes moving the meetings impossible, but c'est la vie :/) My only worry there is that enough damage has been done over the course of a number of years that a lot of NA folks won't even bother since they've been so conditioned to being ignored. I would love to be proven wrong on that though.

---

Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#147 [en] 

Yes it would be nice to have meetings in other time frames. But to compare the absence thereof with racism is a bit overdoing it as usual.

I'm sure Ryzom Team loves Americans as much as we all do, but understand that the Ryzom Team is mostly volunteers in EU time. Don't expect them to sacrifice their little non-ryzom free time (Sundays? please -_-) to please you. It is how it is, don't take it personal.

The reality is you're playing a game with a mostly EU support team and with insufficient human resources to hold +24 meetings (one for each time zone). Sorry to break it to you.

Thanks for the giggles.

Last edited by Victoriacamper (5 years ago)

#148 [en] 

Bubbason
Why would the agenda be any more or less full if the meeting time was scheduled to accommodate non-EU players?

#RyzomSense

Because most of the ryzom team members are from EU timezone, they give their time as volunteer, and is diiffcult to program meeting when they are sleeping, but please, if you are in US timezone, join us, and maybe we will be able to change thinks :)
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