English

While I highly welcome that NH brought back the opportunity to win civilization faction points, I had to realize that the notorious discrimination of neutral players has been aggravated in a further field.

No civilization neutral would complain about privileges of citizens in their nation due to their citizenship. In my opinion, that aspect was reflected in a well balanced way in the lost content of the touring the camps missions. A citizen could yield ca. 2.5 times more faction points compared to others (neutrals and citizens of other nations able to reach the +10 fame threshold). That resulted in 5,600 (?) for a citizen compared to 2,200 for the rest. If a citizen did the other 2 runs she was able to, total yield was 9k. A neutral who took the pains to run all 4 countries' missions yielded 8,8k. So far, so fair - nobody says that neutrality must not come with a price. Btw., TtC missions could be run thrice a day.

Yet the current NH scheme is overdoing. The maximum neutrals are able to achieve (not counting a current bug) is 50 faction points per product and 35 products per day. That is an atyswide restriction not limited to a nation. It means that 1750 points per day is the maximum for neutrals.

A citizen with 100% fame yields 200 points per product, thus his yield is 7,000. The difference is striking. In earlier times, a neutral could get a good faction pick once a day (more often if she was crazy enough ;)) and, beneath that, get other items from nation traders. I recall that I often bought some stack of 50 or 100 cats for newbies.

Even a citizen may think twice before such generosity. A neutral has no chance to get a good pick every two days when spending all faction points, not to mention sap crystals.

I consider that imbalance destructive. Kindly think about.

Agreed -- especially with the current basement at 30 Fame, below which you get no fame points at all.

I don't agree with you, Daomei.

The neutral can have 50 reputation in all the civs and so can use freely the new horizon transports in all the civs. Moreover, a neutral can have all the cities tp free too with 50 reputation in all civilization with the Citizen of Atys title (i am not sure if it's only capital or all the cities).

Moreover, a neutral can do all the rites, not a citizen. A neutral can win money an nation points in all the country with New Horizon.

If a player chooses a civ's citizenship, he only can do the rites of two civilizations, has no free tp (even in his country).

He has only 2 civs in which he can do the rites. He can only have nation points from only two civs. And he can only have new horizon transports free in only two civs.

There are only 2 advantages to be citizen :
- gain more money, dappers and nation points in HIS country.
- participate in the government of his country.

The neutral has more advantages :
- free tp.
- free new horizon everywhere.
- win money and nation points with new horizon everywhere.
- having all the rites.

So, a real player invested in his country is a loser if we modify the system. So, nobody will become citizen because it will be more useful to be civs neutral !

Do you know the real number of citizen in the lakes ? It is very few... And it's worst in the Desert !

So, go to destroy the citizen gameplay with these complaints which are false in reality !

Yes, i am anger because the nation gameplay is very weak and neutral gameplay is more developed in fact !

Ok, u can say me about the rites : do it before the rite ! But no, because citizenship is a roleplaying choice and the majority of the players who choose this do it really without using a broken gameplay who authorizes to realize all the rites before becoming citizen.

And seriously.... Who needs a pick everyday ? Are u realy screaming because u can only have a good nation pick every two days ???

Moreover, having 7000 points a day needs to play a lot of time or when playing, only doing the occupations who gives the mats required by new horizon ! Happily, players who makes a real and contraignant choice like citizenship can have such an advantage !

Luth macFay who hopes that his nation will raise a little because actually it's very sad !

Say what? My civ fame is 50 in all -- and I have no title, and the tp's in the cities cost the same they ever did. I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

Now, the free rapid-transit pass is a nice benefit, but "Neutral" is just as much a role-play choice as is adherence to a civilization or to a religion (or no civ and no religion in the case of the marauders).

I think that Daomei is right that the NH missions penalize the neutral aligned, especially the low level neutral aligned, who are the ones who need the dappers. I think he is wrong to be concerned about Civilization Points at all, but then I'm weird that way.

Some French say that they have th free tp in the capital because they are neutral (but they must be tenant, so all nation and k/k at 50 reputation).

I will ask them why if u want ?

If i am wrong, so i agree with you there is an unbalance but if i am right i confirm i think that the balance is right.

Because there is a major problem : how increase the number of citizen in the game although the gameplay doesn' favor them ?

Actually, it's best to be a k/k without nation than to be a citizen of a nation. We speak about this in the french forum about the topic named : Neutre, toujours here http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/16005/6# 6

Come to visit the taliari assembly on tuesday, u will see the misery of our number.

Luth, I can understand and support your point about rites. However, the current rites are broken, and it is already agreed and being worked on by the event team. They will be fully replaced with a new system as has been communicated by Tamaraea again just a few days ago. I surely hope, and believe we can all agree on, that the new system will balance the amount of rites available to all kind of playstyles. And that would include neutrals, citizens, marauders as well as kami/karavan/neutral, as well as roleplay/pvp (which may be difficult).

I cannot agree to your statement that the free TP matter (it does not matter to me if that claim is true or not):
You are comparing 1k dapper (for the capital TP) and 3k dapper (for the New Horizons system) to civilization points? How many ways are there to gain dapper? And how many ways are there to gain civilization points? That's where Daomei is spot on right.

The touring the camps missions are greatly missed by a great many players I believe. And this is not only because of the civ points. When I was a beginner player just on the brink to getting more interested they were an additional motivation to explore the country side, to learn about the fauna, and finally to learn to travel unseen. It would be nice to have some official communication if they're going to be reinstalled. And, btw, this is about the _type_ of mission. If someone believes they cannot be reinstalled because of the current Atys history, then I'm happy with a similar game play/reward combination of missions. Especially for the benefit of lower/medium level players.

hmm... my K/K fame is only 39 37 not 50 50, so if it is free for a straight 50 I wouldn't know. It will be 50 all across soon enough and science will show us. I doubt that the 1K/tp will change however.

As for increasing "nationalistic" gameplay, I don't like PvP. I feel that the response (at least in Arispotle) to the Marauder incursion, where homins of all civilizations banded together to attack the marauders, was a proper one. I know that when the Second Great Swarming happened, homins of all nations and of all creeds stood together. Even the Marauders stood with hominity on *that* day.

We need governance of the areas. We do not need nations.

(IMHO, YMMV, void where prohibited, etc.)

first off, free tp's for the 50's all the way, i've NEVER hurd of that, and i'm going for 50's all the way, so i too like bitty will find that one out sooner or later, as for the dappers, the whole problem of the game is that there's no way for a low or mid lvl toon to really make dappers of any real amount, there needs to be more low and mid lvl missions that pay higher dappers.

as for civ points, i've never used the first one of them, sure i've got a few from NH in more then one place, but to me they're as yet un-needed.

NH is a good way to get around, but it's not free untill you get to a fame of 45 in that civ's fame, that's not something you get very fast or if your really low lvl something you can get "easy". it would have been nice if it became "free" at say civ fame of 25 or 30. as for the dappers you get from helping NH, they amount to nothing untill your a very high fame toon (over 50, info on that from good friend that often plays at my lan parties). the way the system is set up now, you get...

(forced to reply do to space limit?)

almost nothing at all WITHOUT being a citizen, and that's not fair to the people that are wanting to stay out of the civ stuff. i get that there arn't as many ppl doing the RP and being a citizen, but that's a choice of the player base, perhaps it's because RP isn't as strong a drawing to this game as just playing it and hanging out. to get the most out of NH missions you are FORCED to become a citizen, and i don't agree with that at all, to me that makes NH unbalenced.

as to the limit of stuff you can give NH for "help" 35 a day is a fair number, HOWEVER, it should be 35 a day for each civ, not atys wide, as that also hurts a nutural that would have helped in more then one civ, not to mention that a low or mid lvl toon that's been trecked to the different capitals could earn more of those hard to get dappers, if they had the fame to do it that is (again that higher fame requirement hurts the little guys).

I have an idea, how about doing NH rewards a different way.....

(forced to reply yet again)

how about the low end be say 10 or 15 fame, the high end be 50, and then if your a citizen and your over 50 it's 2x max, and at 75 fame it's 3x, then finally at 4x for 100 fame.

i have no doubt that if that was the case, there would be alot more toons of lower lvl's getting into being a citizen, same with mid and high lvl toons, because with those kinds of rewards it would be foolish to pass that up for long.

I'm sure there are alot out there that think that would be crazy, most of my ideas are crazy or "silly" to other's, but every once and a while there's a like mind out there that says "this is a game" and agrees with me because games are susposed to be fun and rewarding, and not feel like a job, having to work everything in the game like a real job in real life, takes away from that "fun".

i'm a strong believer in there needs to be higher paying missions, sure the high lvl toons have those awesome missions that pay really good, they're not hurting in the wallet, it's us....

(forced one more time, maybe?)

low and mid lvl toons, we're on a struggle to get millions, billions, trillions, ect, i've had ideas about dappers, posted them in the ideas forum, check it out, vote on the poll, if that is dappers is your issue with NH missions and tp.

Ok, sorry everyone, i've ranted again, and i'm always long winded, please forgive that, but really think about the point of view i'm offering, i don't expect anyone to accept it, or agree with it, but if you do agree, awesome, if not, i hope that this has given you something else to think about.

have a good time in game, hope to see you around, and keep it fun on the big tree.

talkIRC

Talkirc -- there is a limit on the number of characters per post if you are replying in-game. It's a known limit and has been there since the WebIG interface was installed.

However if you tune your browser to app.ryzom.com and log in, you can compose to any length you wish.

thanks bitty, good to know, now when i know it's going to be a long winded reply i'll use firefox and get it all in at one time, thanks, always wondered why in game it wanted to cut me off, i never did ask anyone about it, just thought it as a bug i had.

talkIRC

I have to agree wit the original post. Unless neutrals are given a discount on the subscription fee, there oughta be a way for a player of any path chosen to reap equivalent rewards ..... not the same rewards but equivalent rewards

Let's say for example that you could enchant ya weapon with a crystal that added a 10% chance adding "5 x Fame" racial spell damage.

So a Fyros citizen would have the potential of doing:

10% chnace of doing 500 fire damage
10% chance of doing 375 electric damage
10% chance of doing 125 shockwave damae

A neutral would have the potential of doing
10% chance of doing 250 damage with each of the 4 racial spells

Not that I am suggesting such a change but here in both examples each has the potential of doing the same 1000 points of damage.

I won't comment at the thread as such - as a poor Karavan-Matis not digging at all - but I have to comment on what Bitty said here. Because I have to disagree.

Atys needs nations, and religions. Atys can't exist with just neutrals (which seem to make out the mass nevertheless). That's not a question of just PvP (which isn't my cup of tea either), but of the potential for all sort of conflict, of a potential which makes politics useful, which fires RP outside of yitter-yatter or recreation of a homely family life. Roleplay, thankfully, is bigger than that and has more needs, national and international, so to say. And fundamentally only nation and religion helps to make a non-visual difference in the races, in they way they are played, and in any effort to make them believable.