Magic Resistance is problematic - IDEAS FOR RYZOM

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#1 Added by Elvia 1 decade ago [en]

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Hello.

I arrived recently in this game and this surprised me a lot concerning the whole magic branch : it is pretty hard to land a spell.
Don't get me wrong, i surely don't want a "path" that offers no challenge at all but this can lead to some ridiculous situations.
I may not be aware of all mechanics but this game rewards people playing in groups and just for this, magic suffers too much of this problem. This is a situation i encounter.

I want to level my elemental magic, i will do it mainly in solo because even targets of my level can resist the spell totally up to 4 times in a row when i'm really, really unlucky. They are targets of my range, i don't aim for maximum experience at magic because i know it won't be usefull to burn twice the sap to get 1000 more base experience. So if i want to get some levels with a healer on my side on easy targets like plants or some herbivores, this won't work. It just doesn't.

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#2 Added by Elvia 1 decade ago [en]

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The only way to fix this mechanic is a bit tricky but at least, it's not cheating. It comes to find some VERY rare spots of plants (only work well with plants anyway) that are well packed, level "okay" and play it full rot / spray to get 3 or 4 plants at once.
This isn't easy, occasions are are, you need a specific resistance jewelry and it will only work for a few levels because after a while, the target's levels will just get too low.

If i take melee in the mix, this skill is just WAY more efficient, maybe a bit less in solo (unless you use a lower level weapon to reduce cost / improve effectiveness of skill) but totally amazing in group. But... if i'm a part of a trio team as a magic dps, i feel useless.
Long story short : A spell fully resisted is something that happens way too often (at least for levelling).

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Last edited by Elvia (1 decade ago)

#3 Added by Elvia 1 decade ago [en]

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Also even if i know this place is mostly for 1 idea per message, i think it fits in the same spot : Drain damage effect.
Oh this spell mechanic surely fails all the way.
This is how i see it.

1- Spell is casted, cost X
2- Spell is resisted yes/no
3- Link is created yes/no
4- Link is interrupted by "reason Y" yes/no
5- You have to waiiiiiiiiiit
6- "Tic" of damage is resisted yes/no => another cost (is it a different cost ?) is applied if yes or else, link broken
7- Repeat from step 4

And this is awful. The best i did so far on a target 15 level lower is inflict 2 tics of damage then the link broke.
I don't really feel a reason to explain why this type of effect is just ridiculous to use unless you want to kill a target you could punch to death in less than 10 seconds.

Why all this ?

#4 Added by Ornery 1 decade ago [en]

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I am level 81 in offensive elemental magic.
I just had a level 46 Gingo resist me 9 times in a row.

I'll echo that while in a group, the targets need to be higher for the experience points to be worthwhile. As a mage, I dread this as I can't seem to land a spell however the melee combatants don't seem to share this problem.

I wonder if this is normal?

#5 Added by Zheiq 1 decade ago [en]

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maybe this older post can help?
http://forums.ryzom.com/showpost.php?p=263593&postcount=11

#6 Added by Elvia 1 decade ago [en]

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I am not talking about partial resists, but about full resists (and i'm already aware of main mobs resistance but thanks).

#7 Added by Gasket 1 decade ago [en]

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If anything, elemental magic is too good as is. In the early levels it might be a bit difficult, since you don't have much hp to survive the incoming attacks, but as soon as you hit 100 it gets rather ridiculous in comparison to melee.

Really, this game isn't meant to be played alone, and Elemental+Heal is the fastest grindteam you can possibly get on atys, no doubt about it.

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Gasket

"It's shite being tryker! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of Atys! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the Matis. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a shite state of affairs to be in, Marceline, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ****** difference"

#8 Added by Elvia 1 decade ago [en]

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I didn't see any improvement in resists from the early levels to now (i'm only 116) and i really don't see the point of your message as you claim that this gets easier because the only good point so far is that now, the levels are slower and i won't have to change amps this often. Resists are the same, even worse sometimes and i'm 130 2handed melee with a weapon that isn't that good (20 adv. dodge) and i have no problem levelling melee AT ALL while magic drains my ressources dry to kill 5 mobs.
The only technique i see with a healer is to use double missile, overpower the spell to the max and hope at least one spell out of 2 in the missile will land and do the job.

And so, it doesn't change this observation : the resists are too much common. See also the last part of my thread concerning drain.

#9 Added by Gasket 1 decade ago [en]

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Drain is a good point, since those spells are quite rubbish currently. A select few occasions where they MIGHT be useful, but those are rare... real rare.

The direct damage spells though, are more than fine. When you are doing ele, you are essentially a glass cannon, aka you WILL die if you dont have some heals coming your way. Melee is easier to level solo, yes. But an ele+healer is just silly, the speed you can kill stuff at.

I hate to be that guy, but since Suboxide isn't around, I'll do it. You say that you don't want a path that offers no challenge at all. Ele offers next to no challenge if done properly, with a healer that is. I've leveled 1-150ish 4 times, and way past that on one/this character. There is not much difficulty to doing ele, except kinchers. You are just being impatient or doing it wrong. Some spells will be resisted, and you might get killed, but its not worse than trying to kill stingas with a massive axe.

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Gasket

"It's shite being tryker! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of Atys! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some people hate the Matis. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a shite state of affairs to be in, Marceline, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any ****** difference"

#10 Added by Xatokar 1 decade ago [en]

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With your amps equipped check your spell action Success Rate, it should be higher than 85%. Success Rate can be changed by adjusting the actions/credits in your spell stanza.

Mobs , even plants, have magic spells that they can cast on you so a decent set of jewels with resists helps.

Drain spells have their place in the game. Drain spells cannot be reflected. But to hold a drain long enough you need a teammate to hold the aggro of the target with melee or root/sleep etc.

#11 Added by Elvia 1 decade ago [en]

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Success rate has nothing to do with resistance.

#12 Added by Bitttymacod 1 decade ago [en]

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If you watch the incoming spells from mobs (e.g. stingas and psykopla) you will see that they have a similar problem with you (even moreso if you have a good set of resist jewels equipped). How do you think they feel?

Elvia -- animals and plants in Atys resist a lot. However, as a person who leveled his ele to Master mostly solo with no healer, all I can say is, get used to sitting down. Jewels and LA with HP boost are also helpful, and make sure that you are balancing your credits so that your hp and sap go down at about the same rate after taking into account the damage done by the mob. (Leveling to 250 on Najabs was boring, but dp was infrequent.)

Sucess rate does not affect the resistance by the mob, it is true, but higher success rate means the mob has to resist more often. :)

Drain spells, like madness, root and fear are meant to be used in team. They are deliberately weak.

Just my thoughts --

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#13 Added by Jola 1 decade ago [en]

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Ornery

I am level 81 in offensive elemental magic. I just had a level 46 Gingo resist me 9 times in a row.

I believe it is the spell level that used in resist calculations, not your elemental level. That said, like other so called random events in Ryzom, I believe there is a problem with serial autocorrelation in resists. In other words, once a mob (or players) starts to resist, it seems to get a bonus to continue resisting.

#14 Added by Bitttymacod 1 decade ago [en]

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Jola -- it is definitely the spell level not the homin level that is used.

If there is a serial correlation then I have not seen it. Like most observations of random elements, the human mind pays more attention to strings of events than to the overall random factor and so we see correlation where there is none.

Someone once reported that degrades were behaving non-randomly in crafting. Energetic homins did thousands of trials and the patterns were not actually there. That doesn't mean that I can't get 50% failures on a crafting session to make one set of LA. That can happen. It's low probability, but boy is it frustrating when it does. Likewise the 9 resists in a row. It's low probability, but it happens.

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#15 Added by Jola 1 decade ago [en]

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This is what people always say. But testing for randomness requires more than testing for average results over a large sample size. Testing for serial autocorrelation has not, to my knowledge, been formally done. But consider:

9 resists in a row: 0.31^9 = 1 chance in 37,822

I went out testing nukes once and after about 500 I had already observed a 12 resist string.

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