I don't do PvP, never quite understood the attraction but in talking to those that do and those that don't, there are several things that have to be recognized. In addition, I am speaking as a player who "grew up" on Arispotle and when speaking about pre-merge activities, obviously things progressed differently on other servers.
1. At least in Ari, the population was well mixed between PvP'ers and PVE'ers but it can not go unrecognized that, at least in NA, Ryzom in its early stage was strictly PvE and, as such with dozens of Pvp oriented titles to choose from, Ryzom became *the* haven for those who where not interested in the Pvp element. When PvP was introduced, many of them left and server population took a major hit.
There's no reason the PvE and pvp contingents can't exists side by side as long as each other respects the others PoV ... as long as that PoV does not include anything non-consesual and forcing one view upon another's.
2. There seem to be two approaches to PvP.
a) We want a challenge and we want both sides to have **reasonably** comparable numbers, skills, gear, etc so that strategies and technique are what invariably wins the day.
b) We don't want a fair challenge, we just want to dominate and have all the goodies to ourselves.
3. As far as the lore / behavior angle, RP is fine but I agree with OP in that the lore should not be use as an excuse to behave badly. Whatever any player decides to do IG, they should not find themselves in a position to be "punished" or ostracized because they don't want to take RP to the extent that others do. And if what you do does not affect another player, then no one should have a problem with it.
4. Let's drop the fallacy that "one does not have to do PvP go in PvP areas in order to have full access to rewards in the game". Those that PvP and those that don't both pay the same subscription fees and therefore should be afforded the same opportunities for rewards.
That's not a stand that there shouldn't be a PvP area for SNs that PvPers can enjoy themselves battling over or that there should not be rewards for PvP points or anything like that.
But there should be an "equal opportunity" for those that are not interested. Why can't Rangers own "Kitin Outposts" near spots where kitin mounds are located which produce rewards similar to what PvP OPs offer ? Why can't Rangers take down KPs or other such PvE activities which offer equivalent rewards to PvP points ?
An area where KPs replaced the Vorax guards would allow PvE'ers to reap similar rewards for a similar effort as PvP'ers do at current SNs ? But what's to stop the PvPers from double dipping ? How about wandering tribes of NPC Tryronist homins which look unfavorably on faction aligned homins ?
It's worth mentioning about super nodes that the same pattern has existed since 2004:
a) something changes and everyone swoons in seeking to obtain dominance in the "new era".
b) a period of not just "getting what ya need but to make sure any potential opponent can't get it" follows and so multiple storage GHs are maintained to hoard these materials.
c) Eventually, having 5,000 sup zun in alternate GHs makes it a bit old, and SNs are left to be dug by a few lone diggers.
6. Sitting on the sidelines what I have observed is that whenever one side dominates, people leave. First, those stuck losing all the time and being cut off from access to "uber" gear that, whether real or imagined, could put them in a position to better compete, get frustrated and go.
Those on the dominant side looking for excitement and a challenge just get bored. They start to leave in even greater numbers. Then when sides get even again, the underdog gets control and after a short period of satisfaction from having "turned the tables", there's nothing left but "Deja Vu all over again"
The most vibrant time (for both PvP and PVE folks) I have spent on Atys was when long time players in large established guilds came to a similar mindset that PvP is only fun when it's a challenge and when the outcome is unknown. As such, neutral guilds would wind up supporting one side in the morning and another in the afternoon. Entire guilds would toss RP aside and "switch factions" because ... '"always winning is almost as bad as always losing". Some guilds would take and OP and then "give it back" a few weeks later.
As an observer, the nicest part of that time was that there was no taunting or baked beans (obscure reference to "B&M Baked Beans") being thrown around in chat, or other unattractive behaviors.
If ya want exciting PvP, one course might be to look at what the players have control over. The community has the power to make it interesting, challenging and exciting. If ya want a fair fight where ya don't know what the outcome is gonna be, there are ways of making it so.
In college we'd do 3 v 3 tournaments, where the losing team got to pick a player from the wining team who would swap teams, then the winner would choose one from the losing team. At the end of the day, most had to stop and think how many they won and how many they lost but it was fun and we were back doing it the next day..
If you're leaving a PvP instance angry at another player / players, it's not fun. That's not going to be fixed by a change in game mechanics or content. Only the community can make that change and part of that includes, RP aside, recognizing a spade as a spade it comes to such unpleasantries.
1. At least in Ari, the population was well mixed between PvP'ers and PVE'ers but it can not go unrecognized that, at least in NA, Ryzom in its early stage was strictly PvE and, as such with dozens of Pvp oriented titles to choose from, Ryzom became *the* haven for those who where not interested in the Pvp element. When PvP was introduced, many of them left and server population took a major hit.
There's no reason the PvE and pvp contingents can't exists side by side as long as each other respects the others PoV ... as long as that PoV does not include anything non-consesual and forcing one view upon another's.
2. There seem to be two approaches to PvP.
a) We want a challenge and we want both sides to have **reasonably** comparable numbers, skills, gear, etc so that strategies and technique are what invariably wins the day.
b) We don't want a fair challenge, we just want to dominate and have all the goodies to ourselves.
3. As far as the lore / behavior angle, RP is fine but I agree with OP in that the lore should not be use as an excuse to behave badly. Whatever any player decides to do IG, they should not find themselves in a position to be "punished" or ostracized because they don't want to take RP to the extent that others do. And if what you do does not affect another player, then no one should have a problem with it.
4. Let's drop the fallacy that "one does not have to do PvP go in PvP areas in order to have full access to rewards in the game". Those that PvP and those that don't both pay the same subscription fees and therefore should be afforded the same opportunities for rewards.
That's not a stand that there shouldn't be a PvP area for SNs that PvPers can enjoy themselves battling over or that there should not be rewards for PvP points or anything like that.
But there should be an "equal opportunity" for those that are not interested. Why can't Rangers own "Kitin Outposts" near spots where kitin mounds are located which produce rewards similar to what PvP OPs offer ? Why can't Rangers take down KPs or other such PvE activities which offer equivalent rewards to PvP points ?
An area where KPs replaced the Vorax guards would allow PvE'ers to reap similar rewards for a similar effort as PvP'ers do at current SNs ? But what's to stop the PvPers from double dipping ? How about wandering tribes of NPC Tryronist homins which look unfavorably on faction aligned homins ?
It's worth mentioning about super nodes that the same pattern has existed since 2004:
a) something changes and everyone swoons in seeking to obtain dominance in the "new era".
b) a period of not just "getting what ya need but to make sure any potential opponent can't get it" follows and so multiple storage GHs are maintained to hoard these materials.
c) Eventually, having 5,000 sup zun in alternate GHs makes it a bit old, and SNs are left to be dug by a few lone diggers.
6. Sitting on the sidelines what I have observed is that whenever one side dominates, people leave. First, those stuck losing all the time and being cut off from access to "uber" gear that, whether real or imagined, could put them in a position to better compete, get frustrated and go.
Those on the dominant side looking for excitement and a challenge just get bored. They start to leave in even greater numbers. Then when sides get even again, the underdog gets control and after a short period of satisfaction from having "turned the tables", there's nothing left but "Deja Vu all over again"
The most vibrant time (for both PvP and PVE folks) I have spent on Atys was when long time players in large established guilds came to a similar mindset that PvP is only fun when it's a challenge and when the outcome is unknown. As such, neutral guilds would wind up supporting one side in the morning and another in the afternoon. Entire guilds would toss RP aside and "switch factions" because ... '"always winning is almost as bad as always losing". Some guilds would take and OP and then "give it back" a few weeks later.
As an observer, the nicest part of that time was that there was no taunting or baked beans (obscure reference to "B&M Baked Beans") being thrown around in chat, or other unattractive behaviors.
If ya want exciting PvP, one course might be to look at what the players have control over. The community has the power to make it interesting, challenging and exciting. If ya want a fair fight where ya don't know what the outcome is gonna be, there are ways of making it so.
In college we'd do 3 v 3 tournaments, where the losing team got to pick a player from the wining team who would swap teams, then the winner would choose one from the losing team. At the end of the day, most had to stop and think how many they won and how many they lost but it was fun and we were back doing it the next day..
If you're leaving a PvP instance angry at another player / players, it's not fun. That's not going to be fixed by a change in game mechanics or content. Only the community can make that change and part of that includes, RP aside, recognizing a spade as a spade it comes to such unpleasantries.
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