Daomei, the conscept of the nation state, which we can trace back to the Enlightment has no bearing on Atys. None of the four nations fit this description. The concept of social security has no analogy with faction points. Faction points are a reward, which has nothing to do with the idea social democratic social security. Your Hobbesian notion of non settled peoples reflects the duality of savagery and civility that is at the heart of mara/civs conflict. Even Tacitus gave the Germanic peoples a better press than you do the mara. From the point of Daomei the toon all you say is correct, but not from Lacuna's. Lacuna sees a nation. We are not all apostates. The civs left the mara behind. Lacuna renounced her citizenship, and joined the mara. She is part of that nation now. The mara in the new lands are in contact with and recieve orders from the Old Lands, so to say we are not part of their expiditionry force is simply wrong. Yes we are not nice from the players point of view, but just becuase we are not nice does no mean we are not a nation state. Our social and political structure appears to be the negation of the civs. Yes, we would destroy you. But we are a nation, we are a coherent ordered political entity in our own right. It is not nice and it is unpleasant to us as players, but this is rp. How is the holy wars of of the kami/kara any different? We fall short of being a nation in your definition becuase you hold to a idea of a modern nation state that really does not apply Atys at all.
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