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Hello,

I posted a small comment about this on another thread, but this forum is more approprite for general discussion :)

I propose that PVP combat, in real practice, is almost never RP.

First supporting Point:

Homins are basically immortal- you can't actually kill someone no matter how much you hate or disagree with each other. Nor can you prevent them from respawning and returning immediately to the same location.

Second supporting point:

Attacking other homins just becuase you have different fame levels actually gameplay- forming alliances, fueds, having discussions, and negotiations would be RP.

Some heavy RP'er also accept in some situation to make their toon die in game in a roleplay way, and it is often caused by a PvP (consequence/effect).

They rename or just create another toon (mainly rename).
And it is often driven by a strong story line.

It's important to take this side of the RP in addition to this subject.

I don't PvP or RP but i still want to give my view:

Does it have to be one or the other?

You can fight each other for purely game progression
and
You can fight each other for story progression

I guess this topic is meant to clear up what pvp means in the game, but its on a per person bias, so i suggest the following below:

It be great if the dev's can split the pvp tag into visible PvP and PvPRP tags/icons so those that want to do one or the other won't bother each other.
Whether or not they can attack each other would be another discussion, as i can imagine some RPers wanting the random assailant/rogue element with or without the other party even actively participating in that persons RP.

On a Utopic Atys World

I see tags that ways:

Examples:

a) You're full +25 fames nation and Kara: You'll be able to shoot a Kami, but not a Kara, even if the Kami got the same nation fame as you (+25 for both) ( since Kara.. Kami... Faction... Ennemies... )

b) You're Ranger: You can't attack any homins except.. Marauder ( even if Ranger aren't supposed to PvP, but, that's an another subject )

c) You're Marauders: You can attack everyone, even others Marauders ( Since, on the Marauder Lore, you can have some differents between Clans, that's the law of the Strongest... If i can call it that way).

The possible issue with that is... What about a Kami and Kara ( for example ) Tryker who want to defend cities from Marauder? How will it work? Should tag allow you to heal a supposed ennemy since he have the same nation rite as you have?

Imo, yes, since, some players choosed to play a nationalist RP/Playstyle.

But i would say both need to have the same nation rite if one is Kami and the other is Kara to be able to heal each others. ( not talking about being in team tho ).

The prob we get with that system tag when it was on our server ( Aniro, Arispotle and Lenon ) was: I'm pro Matis, i'm healing a Fyros: My tag become Kara anti Matis what is a complete non sense.

So yeah, for me RP=PvP since if you want to play your role, you can be attacked no matter what.

BUT: PvP is not = RP everytimes, since, sometimes, you just want to fight and kill.

P.S. Not sure that's full clear, so, don't hesitate to ask.

Something like this?
if we assume the Faction or Civilization you are aligned with would criminalize you for killing the same Faction/Civilization unless you Represent one or the other, never both.
Example:
Kara-Matis vs Kara-Matis, the Kara faction wouldn't like you killing other Kara-Aligned members, and the matis Civilization wouldn't like you killing other Matis-Aligned members.
&
Kara-Matis vs Kara-Fyros, the Kara faction wouldn't like you killing other Kara-Aligned members, but you can represent your nation instaid, like you don't speak for all of Kara.
Normal-pvp is everywhere, it will allow everyone to atleast do the pvp part of the game.

If you can turn on your tag as shown in the box so you can represent yourself on the battlefield as fighting for -xx-
Possible way you could make this ingame, example,
faction-pvp= 10 pvp points & +0.1 fame your faction & -0.2 enemy faction.
racial-pvp= 10 pvp points & +0.1 fame your civilization & -0.2 civilization of the enemy you killed.
normal-pvp= 1 pvp point.
make it stack, so:
marauders would get 21 pvp points.
kara-matis vs kami-fyros would get 21 points.
kara-matis vs kara-tryker would get 11 points.
Should add a - for dieing in pvp to discourage farming like:
kara-matis vs kami-fyros. kami-fyros lost, loses fame with fyros and kami.
kara-matis vs kara-tryker. Kara-Tryker lost, loses fame with trykers. not with kara since the kara-matis was fighting a racial-pvp
dieng in a neutral only pvp would lose you i dunno dappers? not fame atleast.

p.s.
could change the kara-matis vs kara-tryker, since matis and tryker are ally nations, and the points would then only be 5 for race 1 for normal & -0.05 fame with allied and kara.
mayb it will encourage people to hunt down true enemies.
As your true enemies would give you more rewards.

numbers are probably way off for any good balance but its just an example

Il n'y a pas que des considérations de races ou de religions dans le combat, on peut très bien s'entretuer avec quelqu'un de sa famille ou de sa guilde à la suite d'une querelle interne.
Si un ranger veut tuer un homin en PVP, il faudrait plutôt qu'il puisse le faire mais que ça joue sur sa renommée, y compris sur les OP, comme ça le fait pour les tribus... Pareil pour un kara contre un kara ou un kami contre un kami.

I think there was once a RP tag because we can see it in game configuration.
Perhaps we could (re)active this tag.
As in RP you should act as an homin living on Atys, you can be attacked by another homin and you can take care of another homin whatever your religion or nation but it is not without consequences.
So the RP tag could be attacked or healed by another RP tag but not by a PVP tag ones.
As wanting to make RP is a strong decision, there must be a very long timer putting on the RP tag something like 12 h that will prevent the tag to kill and go away.
All the actions of a RP tag homin would have consequences on his fame but small consequences for the first interaction with another homin (they don't know each other) and going stronger with the repetitive interactions.

Pour prendre en exemple ce que je connais. C'est le cas chez les maraudeurs (notamment en ce moment), la faction fonctionne avec système de clan autonome et où la loi du plus fort est d'actualité (les seuls ordre au dessus de tous sont ceux du great Maraudeur (Akilia en ce moment). Le "PvP" entre membre de la faction est quelque chose de naturel par le fonctionnement meme de la faction.

J'aime beaucoup ton idée de renommée !! Faudrait essayer de la soumettre je pense.


--

For me PvP is a support for RP ( I can explain more if you want). For some PvP is a way of playing the game.

I could agree on a RP tag but I don't think we should automatically change any game, RP exactly isn't about automated stuff changed, but about your individual story! Also I fear automated changes would limit some kinds of stories whereas reactions should be done by other RP players or at least NPCs played by event team. (For example why should I get my fame automatically destroyed for fighting Marauders with my (secret) girlfriend of opposite faction, whereas a reaction from Karavan officer or other Karavan players could create more roleplay instead of just automated useless gameplay)

I think that your fame among the population is not something you can always control.
An homin just passing through the battle area could see you helping someone of the opposite faction and ruin your fame.
So the automated change in fame is not a bad thing, but I agree that it could be balanced by a special demand of an NPC or another RP thing.
RP could also increase your fame not only destroy it. :)

[EDIT] Paragraph deleted because out of topic.

Fame gain is too high by me (+0.0x would be better) but yes, it is my dream that when you kill another homin (especially being a Ranger) then you will loose some fame to your victim's allegiance.

A marauder is attacking a friend of you. You were here you see the beginning of the fight. You can see that your friend is going to die.
What will you do ?
Take part of the fight? Let your friend die?

[EDIT] Removed the screenshot showing a private talk between Revvy and Aleeskandaro. Please avoid to use a private /tell in a public channel.

I think my point of view is pretty visible in this chat but, if PvP=RP, then its a very cheap RP


Disclaimer: Some homins do use PvP in their roleplay as a means to give depth to their charachter, but sadly as it is, its just a minority.