IDEEN FÜR RYZOM

Dear all,

I am pretty sure most of you who pvp or participate in op wars (mostly), but also in PvE situations, have found yourselves wishing that there was a way to cancel your invulnerability skill; be it to heal someone; kick something's/someone's butt/ or getting that last dig action in;p.

I know I have been annoyed plenty of times by the restrictions that invu provides; and have been wishing there was a way to cancel it.

My idea is very simple: Allow us to right click or shift-click or whatever works; on the invulnerability icon on our status bar. That way the action is cancelled.

I know this is a niche idea probably; but I think it will add something to the game; a different(albeit limited) way to play around/with Invulnerability either in PvP or PvE content:)

Let's make this a reality; provided the community agrees!

(Also I am not sure if it's something hard to implement, but I profess ignorance on such issues; if it's not however; I don't see why, if the community agrees, we shouldn't have this implementation).

Your Star.

Using skills need strategy. I think you should plan with a skill effects and its limits. I see no reason to allow cancel such effect.

Makes perfect sense .... read a book or watch a movie, the genre certainly provides for the action. If you stun a mob, you have the option to end it simply by moving ya feet. So why not ? Use the "sit down" key and it ends it. Other than the effort to implement, there's certainly a lot more logic to having it than intentionaly having it excluded.

Yes. but the use of that "strategy" is very limited in Ryzom.

In that case, i think adding more depth into PvP can be a good thing.
It may even force people to "time" by head, the aura and how many second your opponent has it / remain.. can lead to a lot of tactics and ressource management / pressure.

And not the casual "oh noes! my mate dead.. i have 600hp left, lets invu? then you wait.. and pray for a magical rezzu.."
Classic.. boring.. lets improve it!

And .. hey.. Ryzom is missing that really (at least in PvP).

I think Moniq is making the important point that using invul comes with a cost/benefit and thus you have to decide whether the benefit of using is outweigh by the cost (cool down time and not being able to perform other actions.  That is what she means by strategy. Situationally invul has a HUGE benefit, therefore, the cost MUST be great. I can see why you may argue that the skill should be rebalanced, but since there can be no split between PvE and PvP skills in Ryzom the propasal is wholly unbalanced, it removes most of the cost from using the skill and thus in PvE would be complete overkill.

i didn't think you be sooooo vanillaaaaa lac! but then again you are a fyros ! xD

I get your point; however, I fail to see how it would be overkill, since the same things would apply had you elected to utilize the skill to its original purpose.

And also for symmetry purposes since inv cancels out everything; it would be nice to have a way to cancel it out as well; since you are the user after all...

Then what about draw a line between Pve and Pvp?
A certain skill usable only when red flagged maybe?

It could lead to some exploit for Pve.. but that even more interesting! and players will ... maybe... *dream*.. tag?

That sounds a very interesting idea :)

I think the strategy point falls flat .. . strategy is a decision making with the information at hand, when the information changes, you are prevented from making a strategic decision.

Okay... this has become a PvP topic.. so let's talk about this taboo on Ryzom.

( "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, doesn't agree with your version; but here my personal point of view ).

Tis very a little narrow-minded though, but I cannot blame you for that.
If we do expand the choice of decision (and therefore the information available) at hand,
at the same time, we are expanding tactical and strategic opportunities.
Whether by integrating new data, by analysing them; a ways out, and new choices/decision are
available to us, wich is no less called, strategic.
We are human after all, we can do this.

Of course, it adds depth to a system.. far too easy today.
So by changing this, it will certainly become more difficult, but much more interesting!
And maybe people will play to achieve (and be proud of doing it) a real goal, a real mastery of combat;
Without necessarily relying on RNG ( a roll of dice ).

Take the Quake Series, from Id Software; the gameplay is pretty basic in its core
but timing objects and items (like armor or weapons) by head, gives a whole tactical meaning and interest to the game.

Take the DarkSouls Series, fromSoftware; there is a gameplay based on muscle reflex,
parries based on knowledge of the weapon and its timing, and a prediction of movement.
This obviously requires a perfect mastery of the game, and a lot of practice
it also, allows the game to be really intense to play.

This is what we will call: " Skill " ( cf: a gameplay based on skill )
A gameplay based on skill, is a bottomless well of knowledge, you are never done learning and improving.

For me, timing an opponent's aura's; knowing how - and when to use ours,
guessing the last few seconds left on a PowerUps is a very interesting idea.
Wich would make the fightning system even more exciting, and obviously; tactical.


The Pvp on Ryzom is simply a control of resources, praying the RNG dice.
The jewels are not well exploited, and made useless because of a very low level affliction bug;
It also means, that a player with a single mastered skill can beat anyone in the game.
Where is the logic in all this?

Simply, there is no (aka 0, nada, nothing..) skill in the combat system on Ryzom actualy.
You do not aim, you do not learn, you cannot improve yourself infinitely to be the best, or outclass other players.
And the worst;
Is that you cannot achieve the satisfaction of a quest for improvement/inspection/analysis of yourself.
In order to perfectly master an Art, seeking self perfection over the top.

As you can see in other games for example, more.. hmm lets say.. competitive.

Since you cannot do this, you cannot "beat" fighters in Pvp either.
You cannot reach a high threshold through effort and talent, since everyone is equal.
( and that, no matter how many masters you get or how many natural talents/training you do have )

So you will lose 2v1, 3v1 or 4v1 situation, because there is no skill, neither in survival, nor in mastery.
The game is based on an extra number of players to win, and piped dice rolls (RNG/bug).

Basicaly the game restrict yourself.

And that's Ryzom problem, and even in Pve situation.
You finish your game by grinding all your levels for nothing, just for the grind.
Because the game doesn't give you rewards or a goal to be multi-master (and it's even more obvious in Pvp).

But, let us bring the subject back to its source there;

Being able to alter some powerups (aura) when you are under active Pvp flag is a good idea.
And can lead to a lot of gameplay exploitation, interesting strategies, calculations and prediction in combat.

Also;

Drawing a line between the Pve and the Pvp, is not a bad idea at all.
It could even allow the excellent combat system, and the game's mechanisms to be fully exploited and focused.
Competitive, and catchy for players.

*whisper*
And please don't tell me that drawing a line between the pve and the Pvp is gonna divide/split the community eh..
since the community is already divided on this subject.
There is no point in coming here to debate this, so let us not take this route.
*

Whether you like it or not, some players like to kill Kinchers and dig choice all days long yes.
But another part of the community likes to fight each others;
For fun, role-playing and interaction, or simply because... it's a video game.

We create powerful items, whether armor or weapons, it's to use them.
The Pvp fully exploits this use, in its entirety, you live the game as it was designed for.
Or at the least, improved/imagined.
But that remains my opinion, this is my vision of the game and the Pvp.

Clearly its sad to see that Ryzom main line of development do not focus at all in this direction.
Because by forgetting the Pvp part of Ryzom, you forget its strength, the core(mechanism?) of the system,
wich makes it interesting to play.

So is it intentional? Or an oversight? .. who's know.

In the end, we have a rather... static and boring game, for the masterpiece that is Ryzom... how ironic ?

++ Revvyyyy :3

(Gonna copy/paste what u typed in my other ideas thread as it encapsulates the problems I try to highlight ;p)

Also: For those that are sticking to their guns and promote their dogma:

Reading material: P.K. Feyerabend: The Conquest of Abundance

Become pluralistic for once; it won't hurt:)

+1 Revvy.

Huh ?   1st off it sems we are in agreement that INV should allow termination.   But please don't use my post as the basis of a thesis on PvP :)   I don't PvP, I don't enjoy watching PvP.   People who PvP and people who PvE have their own reasons for liking what they do... (for me, that's my day job) ....  But, I would suggest that your dissertation deseves its own thread.  Id hate to see a thread on the INV issue go off in 16 directions in response to and one of those 23 paragraphs :)Sidenote:  I watched one OP battle in my 14 years on Ryzom on the winner was outnumbered 3:1.  So strategy and skill must play a part to some degree but of course.   I would postulate that in a game, you need the roll of dice effect to an extent as if you have the same few on top all the time, the population would be dismal.   Nobody would shell out tickets for a sports event if the team with the best skill set won every game.Your oviously put a lot of thought into what you wrote, but to forward ya agenda ... i'd claim your own thread