IDEEN FÜR RYZOM

Hello,

A discussion has been started on this thread: https://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/28548/1 #1

The poll will be simple right now:

Does the game needs to adjust the amount of resources available or not?

In my opinion the answer is YES but it needs to be done in a smart way to balance the thing well and we can discuss it.

To me the followings points needs to be adjust:
- Amount in sup mats in SN and regular spot;
- Amount of MPs loot per bosses;
- Amount of mats produced by outposts;
- Amount of XL available and give more interest on surface xl mats too;
- Life point for weapons and armors;

I let you give your opinions about this and vote !

I just would say no for Weapon/armor.

Even more in case you boost it, It can take lots of mats to make so, reduce lifepoint if, imo not that good.

But, i must agree about the reste.

We're not much as we could have been, that's a fact.

I agree with Mithian.For sup loot the mats in the economy could be dropped by giving the mob a 50% chance of sup loot, 25% xl, 15% choice, 10% nada.

I like your percentage of luck @Lacuna ! It's very interesting.

About Armors/Weapons lifepoints, it's just one of my idea we can indeed discussed it but what you both raised: we should take it into account and maybe it's not a good idea to decraese this.

My two dappers worth;

1) OP mat's production rate should vary with the quality of the OP mat. While Vedice Sap pure enough for use in a q250 weapon should be rare, I actually wouldn't mind seeing a few more of the lower-Q OP mats in circulation. My thinking is that those who train with a q50/Q100 Tekorn/Vedice weapon or Maga amps might be more inclined to want to engage in OP battles for higher-Q OP mats when they grow to where q100 OP mats are no longer good enough. Sure, it may not be a huge incentive to those of us who have been multi-masters for years, but it's still something that could get a little more action going. An added bonus is that newer players who get a taste of the sort of things us more experienced players are used to are more likely to stick around than those who see us running around with gear they don't think they will ever be able to get. Admit it, it would be nice if more people stuck around long enough to even care about how many mats SNs have, wouldn't it?

2) Boss loot should remain the same per boss, both in quality and quantity, and any adjustments should be through the respawn timer. Given how many hunts are multi-guild affairs with the loot being split, I don't think fewer or lesser mats would be the best way to adjust the quantity of Sup boss mats. And like OP mats, I think the adjustments should vary by Q.

3) Hoarding may make it seem like OP mats and Sups are more plentiful than they actually are, so any discussion about possible adjustments has to take into account that not everyone is a multi-master in a large guild. Any adjustments will affect every homin on Atys, and we must keep the ripple effects in mind. I fully agree with the statement, "...it needs to be done in a smart way to balance the thing well...", and it would be smart to think beyond just our guilds or even our factions and consider Atys (and Ryzom) as a whole. Perspective is important!

Think there was talks about adjusting enemy difficulty based on participants, maybe SN's material amount could be scaled by population similarly.

My opinnion tho, you deserve all you can get. Scouting and knowing sources takes a lot of efford. Wouldnt make sense for land to produce less when theres less players.

Very interesting subject.

My view on the issue: And I speak as a mostly solo or from a two people perspective on all the issues since this is how I currently dwell on Atys:

As sup hunting is the thing I actually enjoy the most on Atys, I clearly do not agree with the availability of the mats being reduced. As someone who most often than not digs alone, I actually enjoy the hole she-bang of being awake when it's season change, taking notes of when I emptied a source, so I know when to go back, micro-managing my sleep again;p, and the exquisite skill that is to dig alone in very hard PR spots (waiting, sneaking through aggro, etc etc). It gives me a reason to have an intense day or two in my Ryzom experience through the week, and the whole reason for that is; mat availability.

Reducing mat availability would actively reduce my Ryzom experience, so I cannot agree with that.

Even reducing amount of mats would hinder that; why go through it all for 30 sups? I wouldn't.

To the hp point; I also have to disagree; what is the point of using 300sups to get a shiny boosted gear piece or two if it's going to break soon? And already to anyone who pvps kind frequently this is a problem; this is especially true for jewels.

About SN, I dont really have anything constructive to say; leave it as it is, or not.

In my view it only affects two kind of people; those in big guilds that gather collectively to do it, or the sneaky diggers that grab the opportunity when big guilds sleep to go dig everything for themselves. Multi-alliance SN digging is not something that is worth anyone's time eitherway (and that's a fact); so it affects a set amount of people.

I also have to disagree on the boss loot. Anecdotal experience of a very recent case: Rendoketh; the last 2 months out of the 7 times I have found it it gave me only once Jewel mats, which is the only thing anyone should, or really wants, out of it. Sure; when the boss gives u what u want everything is shiny and nice, but when it doesn't, and for an extended period of time it doesn't, it sucks. Especially for the very sought after bosses, not getting the loot u want is already nerve shattering, so when at q220 bosses I get crap loot, I really am super tilted. Imagine the tilt if u make the chance 0. (q270 bosses kinda are excluded from this because most often than not u can use something somewhere; well the ones worth hunting anyway)

The question for me; which I am not sure if this what u were adressing; is to what end do u propose these changes? For what reason should these changes take place?

Some of the issues u brought forth seem to be directed towards "fixing"(?) the economy; but I doubt this is a step in the right direction.

I do not have a solid solution atm, mainly because I have completely given up on the illusion of changing the economy ; at the last version of Black Market a Crafted Black Maro NPC set was sold for 50mil. Like Really? What economy are we even talking about; when something that does require a lot of time and effort to be done; is sold for 50mil?

Ever wondered why noone, aside from people in guilds that actually help each other out, sells armillo boosted jewels anymore? Because the amount of effort is not worth the outcome; just not worth it. Unless if we turn the economy (see further) into what I consider the most viable sort of economy, which is to bartering goods; no amount of daper is worth it.

Personally I hoard every mat I do not use for boosts, trades, or to make something I need, until I reach my personal goal of x999 of all my favorite mats. It makes no sense to sell something; unless u do it to highlight ur craft, which is I guess the only point there is to selling stuffs in this economy.

The only solution I would have to offer was to reinforce the bartering aspect of the economy in Ryzom, which is actually the only kind which is interesting to most players/long time crafters, diggers; and it could make our efforts worthwhile. Trading boosted stuffs for boosted stuffs, trading good loot for good loot, sup for sup etc; but then again, the whole faction RP comes into play; and kinda makes that impossible as well. So bartering cannot exist in a large scale because of that.

As I said; I doubt anything can be done to fix the economy; one step could be to finally allow players to set prices on their items instead of the generic client wise inflation system; this perhaps could even make some players craft more etc. etc.

I by no means intend to appear as if I say that your ideas/solutions are not good; nothing of the kind. Just I see this from a single person POV: and to me; the proposed changes would severely hinder my gaming experience and what I came to love in Ryzom; and not to mention, my pocket.

I can understand/see this from a more collective POV but well..; not in the dance anymore, not willing to dance that dance.

Also; and I want to stress this: Aside from the known to us all who do these things, many little guilds/individuals, don't have access to any of the good sups, loots etc, mainly because we invest more time into that, or we know when to go for them etc.

A move like that imo, would totally diminish the already little chance of the newer peoples to find a good boss, get some good loot, dig a somewhat decent sup mat, and not the sup kachine or buo that we all leave behind.

*About the OP produce: I am fine with the suggestion:)*

As always,

Star.

I've always been of the opinion that the only real uses for dappers were to replace used TPs and broken tools, and making a few one-time investments (apartments, some Mektoubs, alt/armory GHs..), and that the real economy of Atys was one of barter. That isn't something that took me long to figure out either; maybe about a week (if that!) after I first left Silan.

The problem is, I can't really barter. Not any more. It seems increasingly rare that anyone is willing to cross faction lines. Some get outright uncivilized about it too. A few times, I've tried to trade for personal use (as opposed to for my guild) and was met with vulgar refusals simply because they hate the faction that my guild belongs to.

There are some exceptions, but my personal experience and observations have shown those exceptions becoming fewer as time goes on. And it has an effect on newer players as well since there is a bit more pressure to choose sides than there was when I first got here. With that sort of hyper-factionalism, I agree that any sort of global Atysian barter economy is not even possible. I don't think it's doing any good for our new arrivals either. It's one thing to have a healthy rivalry, but the current situation is unsustainable for a variety of reasons.

It's nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks that :)

The pro-argument of the thread is that the mat economy of the game is based on a full server, meaning sups were meant to be rare!Remember post-merge when a 97% amp was special? Now you can grind with madakoo maga amps.Boosted items were meant to be shiny, special creations.  We were never meant to grind sup loot and op mats for that uber weapon.The mat economy is broken.  Foraged loot is easy to get; yes, lowering yield would slow this down, but keep track of that refill timer, look at BM, turn up, dig *yawns*.  Yes, I get the irony of me complaining about this.  But season change used to be a scramble for a relatively few mats; as it was intended to be.And the reason for the reason for buo and kachine being left now is that premier mats are too easy to get, and thus people not making full use of what are still very good mats! We have become spoiled and forgotten what made Ryzom PvE great - it was hard and you had to work for it.  If you think it is hard work now you have short memory or never experienced the 'gold rush' scramble of season change/reset.Boss loot is easy to get if you actively hunt for it, and team of 2 or 3 can easily take down all bosses except for kinkoo and  vorkoo, if mats are all you care about.

I dont disagree with anything; aside with the kachine and buo aspect; they are not very good mats;p.

However; I still believe that bartering or by adding an ig auction system, would be overtly better now; rather than reducing the availability of stuff. Because 1) The boosted stuffs would make sense again, for those willing to trade, 2) Would highlight the trade, 3) Could even push some friendly or unfriendly competition between peoples again.

If you weren't an evil matis, not to mention Kami, I could show you recipes that how you how wrong you are :P

hahaha:3

On the other hand, supreme materials are rate for me because of this "it's season change, lets dig all out because it is there no matter if we need it or not" madness. When I return to prime roots every few months there is usually no sup for me to dig. Less mats will only make it even more rare and will solve nothing for me.

I think the main problem is that a group of homins can simply deplete all sources in short time.

Hmm, maybe bosses and patrols need buffing. 2 skilled players and alt can indeed kill almost every boss and it's no brainer for one skilled player to deplete sup source. Not trivial at all tho, gotta study the environment to get to that point.

Still I think it's somewhat deserved for skilled players to do all that, but maybe slight buff for environment could keep it more interesting... Think adding randomness or nerfing material amount makes it more fustrating, so would rather buff mobs so that you really need help with them ;)

wow I almost voted that the game needs adjustment until I read the posts and realized the idea of adjustments was to make the game *harder*.

No way man - the game is too hard as it is. If you keep making it harder and harder to cater to the 'old timers', soon you will only have old timers left playing.

I'd prefer there were other ways or places to find dug sup mats, and other ways to get outpost mats.