IDEEN FÜR RYZOM

Hello everyone, 

I'm opening this topic to discuss about what is the game is right now, and what we can do to improve it at players level and gameplay wise...
This discussion is not about actual bugs at all.

I will develop each point with my own point of view which can be wrong or right, but I'm not pretending to have any absolute answer.


Guild gameplay
  There is plenty of small guild in the game (mono-guild or guild full of rerolls), that's great, but meanwhile Ryzom was supposed to not be an solo RPG, we have to interact with each others.
Few things have been forgotten about guilds : trainers... everyone can see them in their guild hall, but they are really useless. But we could use them to enforce the guild gameplay :

- to learn new skills we need point : we can use the fact that a guild owns an outpost to earn some points which could wisely been spent at those trainers to learn skills such as : having one more mektoub packer (just an stupid example).
This might also solve the turnover of outpost (which remains to a guild not faction).

The goal here is to make people playing with each others again.

- Faction gameplay and RP
 Where is the faction gameplay ? Homins are helping each others disregarding basics things like that...
I have an extrem opinion on this : gameplay shouldn't allow players of different faction to be in team, restriction against exchange also.
Right what players are doing is not coherent with what their characters should do.

- Global story

  One simple question : Does someone know where we are in the trameline ? Kitins threat etc ? Personal answer, No I don't know and it's very bad for a role play game.

For now I will stop here, but I have few ideas and others in my head.
But my point is : everything does not work right now ... no RP, nobody knows about the story (assumption here), faction doesn't means anything and people are mostly interested by mats and there reroll (oh my dear outpost battle full of aggros pull and healing reroll).

Let's discuss those points as player :)

edit: one more point I didn't raise :

There is a lot of players asking for new zone, my personal opinion is : the world too big for the actual population of players, we should remove zone instead of adding new ones... or at least find something to make what we have more attractive (nexus if you hear me...).

A brief reply:

While I am in THE BEST GUILD ON ATYS, I do not think that it a good idea to force/make people to work with guilds (or to make people who like to play solo to not play solo).

Some people like to play with themselves.... ummm.... whatever. and we should not disincetivise (is that a word?) for people to play solo.

Just saying.......

First to deal with the raw nerve that you stepped on;

Your extremist opinion is precisely what is wrong with many other games, as well as the real world that many of us play MMOs to take a break from. You seem to overlook the fact that the majority of people, both on Earth and on Atys, are not fanatics that utterly hate anyone not of the same faith. It's okay if you and your guild are like that, but it's most definitely not okay to make the game insufferable for those who don't share your particular flavor of extremism by making it The Law. If you want to push faction gameplay to that extent, why don't you just play League of Legends where that sort of toxicity already runs rampant instead of polluting one of the few online games with a decent community?

You say, "[W]hat players are doing is not coherent with what their characters should do.". Show me in the lore where it says that ALL Kamists and Karavaners are so full of hate that they would rather die than associate with those of the "opposing" faction. Until you can (and do) quote the chapter and verse that says exactly that, I would like to retain the freedom to be as tolerant as I please; it's MY toon, not your's! You can be as big a bigot as you want, but realize that you and people who share your mindset will be the only ones on Atys before too long; then what fun will you have?

/rant

Now that I have that off my chest, I think your other points are quite valid. Sure, there are those who don't value the socializing, but even the most selfish pragmatist can benefit from belonging to a decent guild. That said, I think that anyone who wishes to forfeit those benefits should have the right to do so, as well as the joy of slower XP gain and restricted access to the fun stuff like OP mats and stacks of Sups. I'm not entirely convinced that we need much more to incentivize guild play, but I am convinced that those who are anti-social already won't suddenly change by making guild play practically mandatory. I can't see much that can be done about guild play (or lack thereof).

More importantly though, the global story. There was a time when Kami and Karavan had a common enemy; the Kitins. But that threat has not been around in years. That right there is a problem on many levels, not least of which is that those who want to fight so badly that they don't care who/what they fight. There really needs to be some external threat or other Atys-changing event to keep things from either getting boring or (worse) degenerating into a player-made MOBA with all of the toxicity that generally goes along with that.

Sinvader --

If I read your comments on Guilds correctly, you are suggesting that guild points would allow guild members to learn skills that are not generally available (like mek-herding, which allows an additional packer). Such skills could well be very useful, and perhaps encouraging guild play might be worth it.
Question: How would guild points be awarded? If it is for PvP or owning an OP, you are penalizing neutral guilds and those who abjure PvP. Ryzom not being an inherently PvP game, there would need to be some other way to gain guild points.

However, "playing with others" is not inherently guild based. When I started this toon I "played with others" until I was level 100+ in several disciplines before I chose a guild (the first of three to which I have belonged).

"Role play" is different for different people, and the question of "what is role play" has been explored to greater or lesser depth in several threads further back in time. But let us focus on now. Since it's all about me, let's focus on me: I'm a Tryker, by Lore I am a hedonistic and intense homin. I'm not religious. I am intensely curious and clever and explore the heavens and Atys and report to all what I find. I will hunt with anyone who will share the loot and be happy for the company.
Who are you (or anyone else) to tell me that _that_ is not role-playing. If I were to return to my previous alignment with the Karavan, why would I be expected to give up the friends that I have made while neutral? They have not proselytized me, why would I not return the favor? This is role-playing as I understand it. (And I seem to be in agreement with Gidget on this matter as well.)

in terms of gameplay, you point out that the population is low. It is exactly that fact that means that forbidding inter-faction gameplay is a Bad Idea™. It is only in a high-population server that extremism can survive without reducing the population further.

In terms of timeline, I don't know about any overarching story, but the event teams are promising us more content. The Matis were just introduced to the possibility of a vegetative wall around Yrkanis, the Fyros are building fortifications in Thesos and a camp in the region around Dyron. The Rangers have been told that the Rite that will allow them to become full Rangers with access to the Prime Roots will happen this summer. A teller of stories is telling of a little girl and a dragon in the region of Witherings. I, at least do not need a plot outline to do role-play.

And finally, as far as re-roll is concerned (by which I assume you mean what most people call alts), Bittty is getting older. Eventually he will follow in the path of his father, who has a summer cottage in Dyron, and fade from Atys. Then there will be another Tryker (or perhaps a Zorai or a Matis or a Fyros) who comes through the Ranger camp in Silan and arrives in the New Lands to make his or her way. That's what _ I _ call a re-roll.

Bittymacod, you are right, Ryzom is not a full PvP game, I agreed with you on one point, if we add a way to earn guild point to spent at a specific guild trainer, we need to also think about those who don't enjoy PvP, maybe just make differents reward for them (mek-herding and find something else for PvP player).
In the past, neutral guild used to own OPs too. I don't see any problems with that .

Maybe I mixed re-roll with alts. So let's use alts from now.
One of my point was : why people are making so many alts ? For what they need them ? To be able to play alone ?

About Roleplay, no even if I was thinking you are not a RP player, I'm not the one who have the right to say that. You can play the way you want and the way you enjoy the most. But that is sad most of the servers doesn't take care of their characters choices and action... It's not harmless to choose an faction, your past friends can turn into your new ennemies etc ... but yes, people wants to play with their friends maybe... so let's make everyone neutral ( a bit aggressive talk I know ). (For ranger the situation is even more complex by their nature).
And your char being ennemies with an another char does mean you have to stop talking with that player...
Make the gameplay harder is one of the way to help people to understand their choices I would say.
In my opinion, and not like you, I think make this change will help Atys population to grow up. But you are also right on an another point : RP definition is hard to find, they are at least a number of definitions equal to the number a people practicing it.

Well, their is event planned, yes, but do you know why Fyros and Matis are trying to build wall ? for what reasons ?
Yes, Gidget told about Kitin, what happens ? why are they so shy nowadays ? same with religion war.
And sorry, but implementing ranger rite is purely gameplay not RP (maybe they will add something into Lore to justify teleporters in PR for you).

I mostly agreed with Gidget second part post.

How about we start by stopping you and your guild from bullying newcomers. Big talks about factions and yet you attack your own, all this in the great name of roleplay.

I'm happy to have friends in every faction, my roleplay is getting to know more Homins and forming relations, it's my role as Atys Citizen, but in the outpost wars I'll die in the name of Ma-Duk and protecting my own and the planet. Your suggestion would harm my role, so I'm against it.

/rant =P

Guild points for special skills and trainer is nice idea. Perhaps skills like aura with +10% heals/damages when in team with guildie and such? Incrementing with more they are from same guild? Would be impossible to win big guilds, would need slight balancing or there could be only one guild in the end.

And +1 for Bittty's idea for non PvP, many Homins I've met wont attack another Homin and this could be something for all of us.

And you pretty much nailed why I chose Tryker.

If you ask 10 different players, you'll get 12 different answers. Speaking for myself, I am accustomed to playing multiple characters. I've GM'd enough tabletop games that I feel that playing just one character is too limiting after playing basically the entire world except for 3-8 people. But that's me. Others have their own reasons for having alts, and I suspect that many have to do with the limited size of apartments and guild halls.

You may think that making things harder will get people to "grow up" and "understand their choices", but like the Armored Warfare players who think that eliminating the PvE mode will increase PvP population, you are forgetting that nobody is forced to play; leaving is an option. Ryzom doesn't have thousands of people installing every day like some games. Even now, there are many who are overwhelmed by the details of the action-editing and crafting systems, which has an effect on player retention. Ryzom simply cannot afford to do anything that will cause new player retention to drop and some old players to leave. If you think that "making Ryzom great" includes causing the server population to drop, it might be time for us to all take a moment to settle on what the definition of "great" is.

That depends on how they execute it. The way I see it, Rangers have the potential to alter Atysian society by introducing a new option with all of the benefits of Marauder while being more accessible and acceptable to the non-hardcore than becoming KoS in every city on Atys. Think about the RP opportunities presented by a cultural revolution. I don't mean just giving neutral players more TPs; look beyond the gameplay at the implications of a new faction that is equal to the two major existing ones that have been around for years. If done right, it could be what the officializing of the Marauder faction should have been.

There are still those of us around who played Ryzom before there was ANY PvP and it was all PvE. Collaboration between Kami and Karavan was wide spread, every body helped each other, and that culture has remained to this day. You will never change that. It was only when Jessica Mulligan got 'her' hands on the game that PVP was added.

Juhuu, pls stick with post point and dont throw crap, for that make a new post pls.Sin is just trying give some ideas to improve the game play.

Guilds?

GUILDS!?!?!?

What would I want with a guild?

I suppose an unguilded player who has good networking skills could get things like Sups, OP mats, and NPC armor with relative ease, but that sort of thing is basically ad-hoc guilding. Even mercenaries have lists of potential customers that perform like guilds. I think it's more about interaction with other players and guilds being a generally preferred way to do so, but just like, "What is RP?", there are many opinions on how important formal guilds really are.

I second that we should not argue ad homin(em), and I agree that Sinvader's intention surely is to make the game better. But as Bittty and Gidget already argued, the remedies proposed are doubted.

And he somehow attracts harsh contradiction, for example when asserting that the ranger rite were "pure gameplay not RP". Indeed the implementation of the things he proposed would be "pure gameplay" either. And the players forming the ranger organization are a rather stable community of players interacting since 2012 in RP activities though the promises of implementing the game mechanics for them have been postponed again and again now looking forward to be completed in 8 weeks or so (hopefully). Watch the embassies part of roleplay forums for the minutes. And the rangers seem to be attracting players though they are not PvP oriented at all and very much cooperation oriented towards all homins of every cult and nationality or organization. Btw., even the initial rite missions to become an apprentice pathfinder and ranger aspirant are orders of magnitude harder than the rites of cults, nations, or marauders, and the upcoming rite has been announced to be ways harder than those.

Further on, believing that Atys does not need new regions misses the desires and needs of all exploration oriented players - and I think there are a lot. For me, indeed, the known parts of the living planet, seemingly endless when I started end of 2010, have become somewhat too small, and I yearn to see and explore the ruins of homin culture in the ancient lands, the battlefields of the temple wars (which I saw shortly before the second swarming), or even completely new parts of the planet like the deeper prime roots, or the lands above on the branches of the canopy.

Btw., alt (alternative character) is the english term for reroll in the french community, german gamers often use the pseudo-english term "twinks" or the german "zweities" (for second character), that all means the same. Usage of alts playing simultaneously has been discussed multiple times, and I won't reopen that debate. Playing with up to 4 accounts at a time is accepted gameplay in Ryzom, like it or not.

As to guilds: I am playing without one since my start on Ryzom, and fared well with. It brought some hardships (as did staying neutral without tp services to PR and - until recently - to 250 regions), and less easy access to OP mats. And I disagree to Gidget that it is "ad-hoc guilding" to interact with players of all nations, factions, and guilds. I am able to provide services for them, too, so do guilds as well during inter guild interactions. But I agree that there are many different opinions about what guilds are and should be.

Yeah yeah, Egan, they are just making ideas to get new players after making the most effort to make existing players leave. Nothing wrong about that and so on.

But really this guild idea is nice, the aura could work in harvesting too, yield more mats, make source more stabile and so on. Perhaps more craft masters in same guild in team, the more success prosent for the craft? The balancing of it kinda exist already, the teamsize can be only 9 I think (havent been on full teams much, not sure), so that's the maximum effect if it's stackable.

Craft success prosent could be kinda overpowered, but a guild with many craft masters could deserve it.

I can already see it as an icon =P



(hmm, preview shows I should have made the number bigger and so on, but you get the ((heehee)) picture)

Regarding conflict between Sinvaders and Jahuu with imput from Agan and others, please consider the following post:

http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/26969/1

Suggestion for Guild improvements:

1. Make guild achievements.
example:
- guild age reaching 1000 days old -- 10 pts
- guild members reaching 50 - 10 pts
- guild dappers reaching 900M - 10 pts
- guild own an op. 1 op - 10 pts

all members have same points and can be use to purchase something (example, pick, armor, gen mats, additional mek). all purchased items are not tradable.

2. Increase guild hall.
- after reaching certain points in guild achievements a guild can purchase additional guild hall. (example, 200 points can purchase additional guild hall)

3. Guild titles.
example:
- The Conqueror - 1000 days old + more than 50 members + own an op


Suggestion for Game style:
- Additional tag icons for role playing players:
RP - role playing
N - Neutral
KM - Kami
KR - Karavan

this is how it will work:
- RP+PVP - role playing as marauders
- RP+N - role playing as Neutral
- RP+ KM - role playing as Kami (deals only Kami and Neutral

so if you activate RP+PVP (marauders) then you can do what a marauders can do (example: kill someone who are tag as pvp or in pvp area). other players also will know how to deal with you.(example: avoid you or kill you in pvp area or will not do trading for you)