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#25 Eingetragen von Placio vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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This is the original post that explained the problems that were being solved regarding the Marauders:

Tamarea (atys)

When the marauder rite has been added, there was not any specific "marauder fame": the Marauders were recognized by their all very negative fames only and not by a specific marauder positive one. This has caused problems with the marauder guards, who didn't recognized the Marauders so didn't defended them. Since then, the gameplay has been changed and a specific Marauders positive fame has been added: any Marauder has got a >50 Marauder fame now. That's the reason why the marauder guards protect Marauders now: they check their Marauder fame.

The old system (Marauder = all negative fames and not = marauder fame>50) is also the reason why there still have a "bug" with the guilds, who don't check the new "marauder fame" for the moment so don't recognize a Marauder and only see him as a factions-neutral and civilizations-neutral. This has to be fixed. A Marauder shouldn't be able to join a non marauder guild, as a Kara homin can't join a Kami one or a Fyros homin can't join a Matis one.

This old system (Marauder = all negative fames and not = marauder fame>50) causes also a technical problem with the forums: Marauders should not have access to "Factions-neutrals" forum neither to "Civilization-neutrals" one because they are not neutrals, they are "Marauders". This will have to be fixed too.

The current ability for a marauder to be in a civ/cult aligned guild is a bug. They are fixing it so that Maras will have to follow the same rules that already apply to all other homins.

Personally i think they could also adjust city guards to see the positive Mara fame, it is a joke that a mara can walk past guards just because their civ fame is up to -42 or whatever the magic number is.

Finally, I have no idea what the point of this thread is. Bina was the first person to reply to Tamarea's post, so this isn't a new issue. If anyone has an idea on how to improve guilds it should be posted in the ideas for ryzom section, Otherwise it seems this thread is just here for us to bash each other and the ryzom staff :(

#26 Eingetragen von Zendae vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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I agree with Placio

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#27 Eingetragen von Rikutatis vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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+1 Placio. Perfect reasoning there.

On the issue of Rangers: There are no Rangers. Not yet. Marauders is already a finalized organization/faction. You can take a rite and become a marauder. Rangers do not exist yet as a coded organization. That's why "aspirant" rangers can be in any guild at the moment. I'm pretty sure once Rangers are implemented as an official organization, the same limitations will apply to them as well. That is, rangers in ranger guilds only. As it should be. So no point in complaining about it now and trying to compare the two.

On the issue of multi-faction, multi-race guilds as per Virg's suggestion: The idea has merit, but I think it'd be a waste of dev time because there are already other systems in place to facilitate that stye of play. You can make chat channels, multi-faction teams, leagues, etc. Proof of that is the successful Cookies group. They are a multi-faction, multi-race group of like minded individuals who use chat channels, leagues, teams etc to make their vision come to life. And they've been going on for quite some time now. So it works.

If you're such good friends and you want to stay guilded no matter what, then I'm sure switching to your guild's current alignment shouldn't be a problem at all. People have been doing this for the past 10 years.

Ryzom already offers more freedom than most theme park MMO's. In the other games choosing a race locks you into a particular faction and you can't even team with opposing factions. In Ryzom you can be a Zorai who chooses to align with the Karavan instead and join teams with marauders. If you ask me that's more than enough freedom.

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#28 Eingetragen von Virg vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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*Groan* We had this argument already on Marauder forum..

First things first. Marauders walking past guards.. You are not thinking through this properly. Say you are taking a Marauder rite- you wear full HA- you go do the rite. The only homins who know you are a marauder are the marauders themselves and whoever you decide to tell. We don't go running around with a big sign strapped to our backs that say 'HEY! I AM A MARAUDER! ATTACK ME!' (Some of us might but that is reflected in our RP by our fames). Marauders have every entitlement to be discreet.

So it makes perfect RP sense that guards won't know you are a marauder until you do more deeds that make you infamous, make you more well-known and then guards will know to attack you.

(EDIT: If any changes should be done its the FH guards freakishly big HP- makes no sense at all. Haven't been on recently so don't know if its been fixed but I doubt it).

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Secondly. Marauders are an organisation. We are a multi-national organisation that operates in all nations. Think of us like the Mafia. In that sense we aren't like a religion. I won't delve into that bit anymore but there are 'for' and 'against' in whether marauders should be in Kami/Kara guilds. Either way as Placio said this isn't an new issue so why is it being brought up now?

Zuletzt geändert von Virg (vor 10 Jahren)

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#29 Eingetragen von Lacuna vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Virg (atys)

*Groan* We had this argument already on Marauder forum..

First things first. Marauders walking past guards.. You are not thinking through this properly. Say you are taking a Marauder rite- you wear full HA- you go do the rite. The only homins who know you are a marauder are the marauders themselves and whoever you decide to tell. We don't go running around with a big sign strapped to our backs that say 'HEY! I AM A MARAUDER! ATTACK ME!' (Some of us might but that is reflected in our RP by our fames). Marauders have every entitlement to be discreet.

So it makes perfect RP sense that guards won't know you are a marauder until you do more deeds that make you infamous, make you more well-known and then guards will know to attack you.

(EDIT: If any changes should be done its the FH guards freakishly big HP- makes no sense at all. Haven't been on recently so don't know if its been fixed but I doubt it).

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Secondly. Marauders are an organisation. We are a multi-national organisation that operates in all nations. Think of us like the Mafia. In that sense we aren't like a religion. I won't delve into that bit anymore but there are 'for' and 'against' in whether marauders should be in Kami/Kara guilds. Either way as Placio said this isn't an new issue so why is it being brought up now?

+1 for an rp explanation that makes far more sense than guards being superheros with supernatural powers of perception.

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#30 Eingetragen von Icus vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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[quote=Lacuna (atys)]

Virg (atys)

*Groan* We had this argument already on Marauder forum..

First things first. Marauders walking past guards.. You are not thinking through this properly. Say you are taking a Marauder rite- you wear full HA- you go do the rite. The only homins who know you are a marauder are the marauders themselves and whoever you decide to tell. We don't go running around with a big sign strapped to our backs that say 'HEY! I AM A MARAUDER! ATTACK ME!' (Some of us might but that is reflected in our RP by our fames). Marauders have every entitlement to be discreet.

So it makes perfect RP sense that guards won't know you are a marauder until you do more deeds that make you infamous, make you more well-known and then guards will know to attack you.

Yes, but you could also argue that guard would ask homins who are deliberately trying to hide their face (so, who they are) in a city to stop by and remove their helmet. (Same could also be said of anyone having a weapon in a city)

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#31 Eingetragen von Suboxide vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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> About why this is now on the agenda, this is because a csr has been gloating to us that is will soon be implemented.

> About tama saying it's a bug is kind of strange since when asked 4/5 years or so ago to csr's it was not regarded as a bug. It was also not dealth with as an bug or exploit. In RP it was even encouraged to be used.
If event team themself tell you in an RP event to join kami and kara guilds as mara undercover and convert them from inside then explain to me how same event team all off a sudden finds out about this bug.

=> sounds to me more like forcing something and hiding behind it being a bug.

This is the sad state I guess in ryzom where we the players that don't RP have to addapt or leave because SOME RP players can't cope with the fact some ppl play to relax and have fun; My mind is made up I'm tired of the harrasement on my adress, lets not forget the mess they did with the guards in FH (it is also strange that this bug was announced to be fixed around the time they removed the guards with their tail between their legs). If this anti GoS and Monks patch gets released I'll be f2p and pissed.

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#32 Eingetragen von Zilon vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Suboxide (atys)

This is the sad state I guess in ryzom where we the players that don't RP have to addapt or leave because SOME RP players can't cope with the fact some ppl play to relax and have fun

I hope it's a joke .......

#33 Eingetragen von Virg vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Icus (atys)

Yes, but you could also argue that guard would ask homins who are deliberately trying to hide their face (so, who they are) in a city to stop by and remove their helmet. (Same could also be said of anyone having a weapon in a city)

No you missed the point. You can do the rite wearing a helm- you can dispatch of the guards without them ever seeing who you are. So when you next walk into the city you are just another homin.

The idea that guards should automatically recognise and attack marauders (especially ones who have just joined) is stupid. As marauders do more infamous acts then it makes RP sense that guards would remember their faces and attack them.

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#34 Eingetragen von Placio vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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@Vrig, yes my comment about guards was off topic, but relevant to the quote. According to your logic, how would any guard anywhere know whom to attack or defend if they did not have information about fames. I imagine photographs of Atys's most wanted in guard barracks.

@Subo, so the point of this thread is just to annoy and piss off people because you can't get your way??? I dont know what event team said about it, and you already said you don't RP so you can't claim that you are a spy- and if you were a spy shouldn't we be able to catch you and lock you up, but they are fixing it now. If you want to be in a kami/tryker guild all you have to do is go neutral- problem solved!

#35 Eingetragen von Virg vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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and just to add- would be great if the higher powers could actually work on something that will help marauders.

I can just about tolerate doing other civ rites (when we don't even have any ourselves). In fact that pisses me off as well but what will be will be.. But if you are going to work on the marauder faction just putting rules and restrictions in place.. come on. Why not do something more useful for the marauder faction.

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#36 Eingetragen von Icus vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Virg (atys)

Icus (atys)
Yes, but you could also argue that guard would ask homins who are deliberately trying to hide their face (so, who they are) in a city to stop by and remove their helmet. (Same could also be said of anyone having a weapon in a city)

No you missed the point. You can do the rite wearing a helm- you can dispatch of the guards without them ever seeing who you are. So when you next walk into the city you are just another homin.

The idea that guards should automatically recognise and attack marauders (especially ones who have just joined) is stupid. As marauders do more infamous acts then it makes RP sense that guards would remember their faces and attack them.

What i say is that guard have a perfectly good reason to stop you in the city if you are wearing a helmet. Either you do it (and they think you look reaaaally like this marauder everyone heard of after he killed 5 fyros in pyr), or you don't and you are suspect anyway :°
Anyway just wanted to say you can get RP reason why guards does, in fact, attack you when your fame is too low. Or you could just admit that sometimes gameplay overrides roleplay, and beeing in a faction / organisation can means you get some downsides

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#37 Eingetragen von Placio vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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@Virg, I never imagined you would be pro fake marauders. All the work that been put into making Marauders, and the work that still needs to be done, and people just want to do the rite so they can have pink/purple tps and mock civilizations.

#38 Eingetragen von Virg vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Icus:
Step 1: Do the marauder rite wearing full HA, kill all guards in your path- no guard sees what you look like.

Step 2: Walk into the city the next day in LA with a smile on your face.

How would they ever know you are a marauder?

Placio:
As I said there are for and against arguments, I can see the valid points behind both. Essentially though my biggest issue is that this work will not improve the marauder faction. What we need is missions, rites and occupations. Why should the Fyros and Matis(?) get a new rite before us? They already have plenty of rites they can do. Instead- the work we get will actually alienate some marauders. Regardless of the fact they don't RP, they have been marauder since day 1 and actually drove the initial development of marauders. Sure look at doing it later if you really want but at the end of the day do something (Mission, rites, occupations) that will make all marauders happy.

It is ridiculous we don't have marauder-means of getting dappers. More ridiculous is the fact this is not a priority in dev work.

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#39 Eingetragen von Laofa vor 10 Jahren Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Guards recognize you because, to became a marauder, you must go down your fame to -42.

-42 = All people know that you are a criminal and don't want to have trade with you. You have your portrait in all guardroom.

Marauder PNJ want that you are "a star". A malefic and hated star, because marauder pnj want only people who is really ennemy of nation and factions.

This is what is reputation, fame : how other people, in a nation/faction, considers you. If you want to be anonymous, stay with start fame. (And start fame are not all in zero, because homins (pnj) in Atys have a lot of partiality and racism... sad but real). You can love nations, but nations don't like you. You are a public ennemy when you are a marauder.

Fame is good logical. Attack by guard is good logical too. Only one thing how is not logical : to go down fame, kill people haven't effect. PNJ consider that you are more offensive when you says "I don't want to stay citizen... ho, wait, I'm not citizen !" than when you kill them...

Zuletzt geändert von Laofa (vor 10 Jahren)

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