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Maximus,

I see your point, but I disagree. You are speaking about giving power to the players, but then you want to limit power to the few developers and event guide volunteers. That exactly means that players are powerless and solely being played with.

And here is one of the differences to "normal games", much more to solo games from the shelf, I love with Ryzom and hold to be one of the biggest advantages. Salazar and me may violently disagree about a certain event, but we can be sure that our opinions and concerns are being heard if voiced. Surely the decision how to proceed is not with us, and nobody demands such. But we are indeed not passive puppets drawn over the chessboard by omnipotent masters, but part of the game, an active one.

Therefore I do not see it as mistrust when voicing concerns or dissent, but part of the development of the world. In case developments are going too far to me or others, the choice will remain at both sides: either the developments being modified or consequences drawn and being accepted.

Without feedback, the game masters and event designers are left with lonesome decisions which may trigger unwanted consequences. If those consequences are foreseeable, I consider it not only a right, but a duty to make that known.

I see your point.

But then why ask the ET to write anything at all ?
And why not write it in its stead ?
If it's a prerogative you have. If everyone is conservative in the community and not willing to try out things, should everything be kept in check and stay conservative ? It's a real question I ask.

Why even develop some Themes then ?

Also, feedback can be given through acts in game.
In the Atreus story, nothing stands blocking the fyros patriots to go to their emperor and denounce the whole thing askin that Atreus should be wiped out. The message would be pretty clear to the ET I think if that was done.

A good story is not written in advance, you know where you will end up but not how you will end up there. You can see the way the story is going as a form of constant communication between a game master and his players.
In my eyes, the starting pitch can be outrageous and dangerous, it does not mean the story will go overboard.

The way you "disclose" feedback has a real consequence : now the story is spoiled to the players who were participating in it. Why even try to follow anything with interest when the end is written white on black here ? If the stakes are non-existent, why even bother ?

Seriously ?

You take an extreme position here, Maximus, which contains truth but ignores the fact that this sword cuts both ways. If the ET does something which seemingly contradicts the games's laws, the players have every reason to worry, not just their characters. If I play a character which makes an error, that character has to pay for that error, with loss of respect among other characters or loss of social position, with banishment or punishment, with the realisations that the character did bet on the wrong mektoub, whatever. Neither the character, nor the player can undo that error. He/she can't say: that never happened, I start again from whatever point it was I made that error. The character might regain its social status again, might rehabilitate, but that time he/she strolled from the path will become part of the character's history. That, after all, is the whole point in roleplaying: to develop a real character, with all risks and only a very, very tiny safety net - if at all.

The ET, the game masters, on the other hand, have almost (almost, I say) ultimate power: they set the frame and they develop the options for the players to take. The gm has all freedom, but at the same time also has a high responsibility. If the game master bodges, if the gm errs or does something with consequences he/she don't expect and which will have a very negative, destructive effect on the game and the community, he/she is in the same position as the players - there's no way to undo it. But those who pay for it are just the players, while the gm can say for him-/herself: "Oops, better luck next time".

In a way, the collision of the Rangers/termites event and the Matis/Zorai/botanical solution is a perfect, poisonous example for that. One could argue that the introduction of the botanical alternative already was an error (and, in fact, some Rangers did, pointing out that it might weaken the position of the Rangers). On the other hand, it was clear that the French Zorai and some of the Matis were not too happy with the termites right from the start. I guess the BS (=botanical solution) plot was slowed down to make sure the termites could be developed a bit better, as obviously that was the "main plot", while the BS was an optional byway, so to say. But both ways were followed with great excitement by the players according to their tastes. Everybody was happy to have found something to chew on, although it was absolutely clear from the beginning to all players (not to their characters, of course, but to the players) that the Ranger's termites are doomed to success, for a failure would have been an enormous setback for the "newborn" Rangers community.

Then the moment came when the decision was made by a gm to allow termite experiments in Matia. In that moment, any efforts the Matis Noble players (and their characters) made were no longer worth the paper they were written on. Any participation up to that point got a stopper. For the characters in-game it said that the Karan didn't care for his Nobles; it was worse enough that he didn't consult the Nobles, but even worse that he made a contradicting decision without even telling them (or his representatives; we had four different counsellors, I think, and the Royal Herald at the various assemblies, and none of them saw a reason to prevent the moves of the Nobles, then still blessed with ignorance, as obviously all these counsellors were as unaware as the Nobles).

Now, how many possibilities does a Noble have to act from that point on? There was a Ranger player who suggested to us (not to our characters, but to us as players) a palace revolution and the subversion of the Karan, which is hardly an option for Matis. At the same time the only possible explanations were: a) the members of the High Court - at least the known counsellors and probably the Royal Herald - are corrupt (which would also have put a very bad light on the Rangers as well); b) the Karan doesn't care a bit for the opinions of his lower representatives, re. the player Nobles, and doesn't care that they get into trouble as naive and clueless, nor does he care for the international politics in New Matia as far as they are not connected to the Rangers; and c) the Karan is plain stupid and completely unaware of the consequences of his doings. All these options are no options at all. All these options are desastrous to the players of the Matis Nobles, with not the slightest possibility to change it - only to bow deeply and give a show as spineless lickspittles. The gms in that case didn't show us a way to get out of this trouble at that point, and there was no way to undo what already happened.

The option we ended up with, on which the ET, no doubt, worked very hard (and obviously became aware then of the limitations to act at that point) and which tried to save faces of both the Rangers and the Karan while trying to soothe the pretty devastated Nobles was most likely the only way to get out of a mess no player was responsible for, and the Nobles got out of it on crouches, really. And the reason for all this was a decision in the ET not thought through. It was an example where players had to eat up a soup they hadn't ordered in the first place, without the tiniest chance to send it back.

So, by getting back to what you wrote, the players were more than willing to try out things offered, but then were beaten up. Feedback was given by acts in the game (Salazar left the Chamber of Nobles and some Nobles from Avalae were already prepared to take the same step, while other players were close to leaving the game – which is an OOC act, but the worst possible case). So all consequences, all IG communication between player characters and gms at that point were destructive without any option on both sides to get to a really pleasing, smooth, “round” outcome, with the whole thing not being helpful to the Rangers and definitely bad for the Matis on every level. I do understand that no player wants to see something similar happen to his/her fraction, for while our ship did not go down, the story went pretty much over board and only by sheer luck found a floating plank to survive.

*snip*
Are you talking about the spoiler on the Ryzom-Wiki perhaps? http://fr.ryzomnomnom.com/wiki/Euracus_Cethus If you translate this to English it clearly states: "This character is Atreus, who is none other than Dexton itself." It's a Wiki, it's OOC, and this sentence seems phrased as an absolute fact.

Is it really a wonder Daomei got worried about this, thinking about the possible logical consequences?

About the question "how events should be done": it is a very bad idea to try forcing players to play in a style they do not enjoy. It pretty much always ends with these players leaving the game. This HAS already happened, and some of us have experienced it too often to tolerate it shrugging our shoulders. It's something Ryzom cannot afford, as in my opinion this small game needs every paying player possible to stay alive.

Some RP-events are "written in advance", others are developing all by "themselves" naturally driven by action, reaction and interaction of player-characters. Why not let players themselves choose their own RP-playing-style? What's there to lose? Not everybody enjoys political Assemblies for instance, not everybody likes guild-RP-stories, but some do and these players keep these kinds of RP alive. You aren't forced to participate.

The players or rather the characters from Leanon were the ones who decided to share their IC-knowledge of many events with everyone all by themselves. There has often been a possibility in RP-events for small groups or sometimes even individuals to keep their knowledge to themselves or to share it with only a few others. Actually, some DID keep what they knew a secret. Sometimes one would share news only with characters of their nation, or with befriended guilds, or a whole faction, sometimes only with closest friends.

But many others wanted everyone who was interested to participate in some interesting adventures together. As somehow the majority of knowledge was willingly shared with the public, and led to the best results with many homins getting fired up and having fun together, this became some kind of "typical" RP-"style"; but it happened very naturally according to our character's wishes based on their past and present experiences.

Live and let live?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d43nagVqbU ^^

I've read the thread since the beginning (not really, only since the english part, i can't speak german :p), and most of the (good or not) arguments has been already said. I just wanted to say that the Atreus event was the best event i was able to attend since the merge (and by far). It included some of my favourite NPC, in my favourite country, and the plot was very interesting (dexton, resurrection, and many other things who definitively rang a bell for Geyos, and changed a lot his history :)

But what i've liked most is the way the event took part : fast, unexpected event, without the need to wait for three weeks when you asked to see a NPC ... ;) And sadly, i don't think this kind of event can take part if the event is multilungual, because of the slowness added. And by the way, i'm pretty sure some french akenak (icus or bardor ? don't remind who) spoke of it at the national assembly, only to be silenced by Abycus Zekops. And at least one patriot from dyron searched information about Atreus (we had the opportunity to speak together, though i knew little of him at this time).

Last thing, Zhoi : in french the sentence " Ce personnage est Atreus, qui ne serait autre que Dexton lui-même. " means "This character is Atreus, who WOULD be nothing else than Dexton", not "who IS". Power of the conjugation ;-)

Geyos,

Thanks for your contribution. As to the event, what you describe is what I felt with the two events finishing the Amber Cube series which had begun already at times of Leanon. It is clear that monolingual events are ways easier to manage, open up more opportunities for roleplay and are clearly faster. And as far as you and your friends enjoyed the event, that is absolutely ok and I really welcome that you had fun.

What is not ok, are consequences for the Lore and the rest of the playerhood. Sharükos Dexton is not the property of one fraction of the old servers, on contrary. For me, he played a key role in my biography as a young woman having chosen the Burning Desert as my homeland, with me taking part in the efforts to save his life, excelling in both finding hints about the disease (rank 3) and digging materials for the cure (rank 4), despite my not very high levels and enormous amounts of dp. Rank 1 in digging was occupied by an other stateless neutral tryker living in Pyr, Guardi from The Free Soul. For my services for the sharükos and the empire I have been rewarded in person by him. Later, when we had to retreat into exile, the decision of the Sharükos to defend Pyr until his death allowed the split treck to the scorched corridor to reunite and eventually proceed (no matter that this was not planned that way by the ET, while the death of the sharükos was). He died as a hero not only of his people, but of all hominity retreating from the second great swarming. Choosing to fight to death he showed his confidence in the sharümal and his ability to lead the Fyros people and other desert dwellers during the evacuation, exile, and eventual return.

I do not know what happened during your event, and, to be honest, I am not even curious. What I hope is, that the obscenity of a Dexton revenant has an end without tainting our memories of a great leader of a great homin people. If this memory is defecated on and destroyed beyond a certain extent it would mean the end of my contribution to roleplay.

Thanks for your input, Geyros.

In fact, your posting showed both the weaknesses as well as the strengths of a one-language event.

The strenght is its pace, the "reaction time" of both players and NPCs and so on, and it can help to intensify the connection of players/characters because of the possibility of adaptation of a plot to the mentalities and habits of the players from - fundamentally - one server. It is much easier to make it "personal" on such a basis, to shape the history of players without stirring up the whole world.

The weakness is that it really cannot work the same way when people who don't speak or understand the language join in. But if you keep them out, and the plot is something which will shake the foundations of, say, the Empire, you expel two thirds of Fyros Patriots from the development of their nation. You would not have enjoyed the Atreus event (it's still running, isn't it?) if it would have been available in German only. And if, say, it would lead to a replacement of Lykos, you would be, most likely, straight through the roof for being excluded from something changing the World your character lives in.

So the hard bit is to find a solution to all this. The only way coming to my mind - but which would absorb plenty of ET man-power, I guess - would be a three-streak plot, each of similar importance and a similar level of fun, leading together to a finale of nationwide importance. Each language group would play on one of the streaks (multilingual players, obviously, can choose) which only together would resolve. You can, of course, vary on the required categories - Fyros Patriots, Kamists, Neutrals, Fyros born, all homins, whatever. I can imagine this would work.

But then, I can also imagine it won't work at all. ;)

OK, I think I'll contribute as well since I've been mentioned already ;-)

I am the one who contacted Geyos back when the first rumors came up.
One of the Thesos Akenos mentioned a letter during one of the last assemblies in the great hall (before it moved to Agora) could be that it was Icus but I don't really remember who it was exactly.

So after not hearing anything new I decided to ask someone from Thesos about details and talked for a while to Geyos as a result.
It sounded a bit fishy to me though so I contacted the ET via mail to inform them about it and get to know if it really was official. I only got thanks for the info back but no reply if it's official or not though.

Because of my restricted ability to get online (RL-stuff is eating up my time) I wasn't really able to follow the events though.

Then Icus stepped back and explained some of the things I heard initially to everyone on that assembly in his discussion with Abycus. That's the point where I knew that it's something official (or the ET might have adapted it after my mail)

The thinking that it's fishy wasn't because of Geyos but because of the hole situation and story I had heard back then and this was also the reason why I never really told other Fyros in Dyron about it.

----------------------------
OK, nachdem ich bereits genannt wurde kann ich mich ja genau so gut zu Wort melden ;-)

Ich bin derjenige, der Geyos kontaktiert hatte als damals die ersten Gerüchte aufkamen.
Einer der Thesos Akenos hatte einen Brief während einer der letzten Versammlungen in der Großen Halle (bevor es wieder in die Agora ging) erwähnt - könnte sein, dass es Icus war aber ich weiß es nicht mehr genau.

Nachdem ich eine Weile nichts neues diesbezüglich gehört hatte habe ich mich entschlossen einen aus Thesos nach Details zu fragen und daraus resultierte dann ein längeres Gespräch mit Geyos.
Es klang für mich jedoch etwas merkwürdig daher habe ich das ET via Mail kontaktiert um diese zu informieren und evtl. in erfahrung zu bringen ob es sich hierbei um ein offizielles Event handelt. Ich habe jedoch nur einen Dank für die Info und keine Antwort ob es etwas ofizielles ist erhalten.

Wegen meiner wenigen online-Zeiten (RL-Kram frisst meine Zeit) war ich nicht wirklich in der Lage den Ereignissen weiter zu folgen.

Dann trat Icus zurück und erklärte in seiner Diskussion mit Abycus einige der Zusammenhänge die ich zuvor schon in Erfahrung gebracht hatte. Dies ist acuh der Punkt an dem ich wusste, dass es sich um etwas offizielles handelt (oder das ET hat es nach meiner mail einfach übernommen)

Mein Denken, dass es merkwürdig ist hatte nichts mit Geyos zu tun sondern mit der gesamten Sittuation und Geschichte die ich damals gehört habe und dies war auch der Grund warum ich es nie anderen Fyros in Dyron erzählt habe.

That's exactly what I was saying, Geyos - and therefore a plot like this is a dangerous thing to tackle in ony one language. ;)

Thanks for giving a proper translation, Geyos :) This is very helpful to know!

Unfortunately for those of us here who cannot speak French, we have to use some kind of translation.
If you use Google (convenient for translating whole homepages), sadly it REALLY turns out like this:
"Ce personnage est Atreus, qui ne serait autre que Dexton lui-même."
"Dieser Charakter ist Atreus , der kein anderer ist als Dexton sich."
"This character is Atreus , who is none other than Dexton itself."
Give it a try to see yourself?

I wonder how many English-speaking and German-speaking Ryzom-players have already tried it out (at least after Daomei gave the link to http://fr.ryzomnomnom.com/wiki/Euracus_Cethus in her opening-post) and were thinking: "Oh great, we're left out again from some important part of the Ryzom-story, but it's hopeless to object since the Event-Team won't listen to us anyways. Better just ignore it again to not waste energy on anger as we cannot change anything.". More and more German-speaking (not everyone of this community is from nor living in Germany btw., like myself) players just give up and do not really care any longer. Which is sad in itself.

About Dexton's death on Leanon, there's a bit more in my chatlogs:

2012/09/28 21:40:18 Orphie Dradius ruft: Eine mächtige Gruppe KItins stellt sich uns in den Weg
2012/09/28 21:40:36 Geist von Atys sagt: Immer wieder öffnet sich der Boden und Kitins erscheinen rund um die Fyros-Hauptstadt. Der ganze Boden scheint in Bewegung!
2012/09/28 21:42:50 Orphie Dradius ruft: irgendwas scheint die Kitins grade verschreckt zu haben
2012/09/28 21:43:51 Dexton sagt: Homins! Ihr müsst weiter in Richtung Oase vorstoßen. Ich werde die Stadt meiner Vorväter mit meinem Leben verteidigen!
2012/09/28 21:45:11 Dexton sagt: Ich werde die Stadt - meine Stadt nicht kampflos aufgeben!
2012/09/28 21:45:21 Geist von Atys sagt: Auch an den anderen Toren strömen Kitins in die Stadt, Imperator Dexton blickt immer wieder hinüber zu der Stadt seiner Väter.
2012/09/28 21:46:36 Dexton sagt: Ich werde einen Teil der Kitins in die Stadt locken, und mich mit den Wachen um sie kümmern!
2012/09/28 21:48:12 Dexton sagt: Sterbt ihr Monster!
2012/09/28 21:49:08 Dexton sagt: *Steckt seine letzte Kraft in die Schläge*
2012/09/28 21:49:26 Geist von Atys sagt: Dexton stellt sich den Kitins am Cerakos-Tor, jenen Ort verteidigend, an denen sein Vater begraben liegt.
2012/09/28 21:49:32 Dexton sagt: *Ein Kitinstachel durchbohrt Dexton's Herz*
2012/09/28 21:50:03 Dexton sagt: *Mit schmerzüberzverzerrtem Gesicht sinkt er langsam zu Boden*
2012/09/28 21:50:54 Dexton sagt: *Mit einem letzten Schlag mit dem Schwert seiner Väter vernichtet er seinen Todesboden mit einem Schlag*
2012/09/28 21:51:49 Dexton sagt: *Reglos liegt er, das brennende Schwert mit festem Griff in der Hand, am Boden.*
2012/09/28 21:52:12 Dexton sagt: *Der Atem wird flacher und flacher, bis er ganz verstummt...*
2012/09/28 21:52:28 Geist von Atys sagt: Mit dem Schwert in der Hand, so wie es sich Dexton immer gewünscht hat fällt der Imperator vor dem Tor der Stadt.
2012/09/28 21:53:39 Lykos sagt: *beugt sich zu seinem Vater und nimmt ihn auf seiner Arme*
2012/09/28 21:54:08 Yrkanis sagt: Mit dem Schwert in der Hand zu sterben, aufrecht als Krieger. Dexton sprach davon, dass er so sterben wolle.
2012/09/28 21:54:19 Yrkanis sagt: Sein Wunsch ging in Erfüllung.
2012/09/28 21:54:24 Yrkanis neigt sein Haupt.
2012/09/28 21:55:27 Lykos sagt: Nun lauft vor ich bringe ihn zur schmiede und komme gleich nach
2012/09/28 21:56:31 Orphie Dradius sagt: lasst Dextons Opfer nicht umsonst gewesen sein, lasst uns langsam weiter ziehen
2012/09/28 21:56:50 Yrkanis sagt: Lykos wird später zu uns stoßen, lasst uns langsam weitergehen!
2012/09/28 21:58:56 Geist von Atys sagt: Mit klammen Herzen ziehen die Homins weiter, dem Flammenden Wald entgegen, während immer wieder Kitinhorden gegen Pyr anrennen und die Stadt langsam einzuschließen drohen.
2012/09/28 21:59:09 Orphie Dradius sagt: Die Kitins machen uns den Weg nicht leicht
2012/09/28 22:00:26 Yrkanis wirft sich in den Kampf, mutig und entschlossen kämpft er Seite an Seite mit den Homins.
2012/09/28 22:02:15 Orphie Dradius sagt: Bitte wartet auf die anderen Anführer
2012/09/28 22:02:16 Geist von Atys sagt: Lykos will seinem Vater die letzte Ehre erweisen. In den magischen Feuern der Schmiede übergibt er den Leichnam seines Vaters den Flammen. Das heilige Feuer der Schmiede hüllt den Körper ein und verwandelt ihn binnen weniger Augenblicke in feine Asche.
2012/09/28 22:05:23 Geist von Atys sagt: Immer wieder bricht der Boden vor den Homins auf, so als spürten die Kitins, wo die Homins sich bewegen, als hörten sie das Scharren ihrer Füße im Sand auf der Flucht.
2012/09/28 22:06:02 Ailan MacKean sagt: Kämpft mit Mut im Herzen!
2012/09/28 22:07:45 Geist von Atys sagt: Mit der Asche Dextons in einer Urne erwartet Lykos die Homins am Abgang zum Flammenden Wald.

This gave me the impression that Emperor Dexton did not want to be resurrected by the Kamis, since his was a glorious ending that he himself had wished for, as King Yrkanis stated. Even if Dexton's life-seed perhaps wasn't damaged by the Kitin that impaled his heart. Otherwise Lykos would have been the killer of his father who was merely in a coma as many homins know it prior to a resurrection by the higher powers. Besides: the recent IC-"explanation" for resurrection that Daomei has linked to (here's the English version: http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/19440/1# 1 ) is very disappointing in my eyes, revealing not even a little bit of useful news or Lore, especially not about the life-seed...

Thanks Zhoi. Here an (unauthorized) english translation:

About Dexton's death on Leanon, there's a bit more in my chatlogs:

2012/09/28 21:40:18 Orphie Dradius shouts: A powerful crowd of kitins is blocking our way
2012/09/28 21:40:36 Rumours of Atys says: Again and again the ground opens and kitins appear around the Fyros capital. the whole ground seems to move!
2012/09/28 21:42:50 Orphie Dradius shouts: something seems to have scared the kitins recently
2012/09/28 21:43:51 Dexton says: Homins! You must proceed to the oasis. I shall defend the city of my ancients with my life!
2012/09/28 21:45:11 Dexton says: I shall not surrender the city - my city - without fight!
2012/09/28 21:45:21 Rumours of Atys says: On the other gates as well streams of kitins rush into the city. Emperor Dexton looks again and again at the city of his ancients.
2012/09/28 21:46:36 Dexton says: I shall lure a part of the kitins into the city, and take care of them together with the guards!
2012/09/28 21:48:12 Dexton says: Die, monsters!
2012/09/28 21:49:08 Dexton says: *all his remaining power putting in the sword strikes*
2012/09/28 21:49:26 Rumours of Atys says: Dexton has his last stand at Cerakos Gate, defending the place where his father is buried.
2012/09/28 21:49:32 Dexton says: *A kitin sting pierces Dexton's heart*
2012/09/28 21:50:03 Dexton says: *his face strained from pain, Dexton slowly sinks to the ground*
2012/09/28 21:50:54 Dexton says: *With a last strike of the sword of his ancients he destroys the death bringer*
2012/09/28 21:51:49 Dexton says: *Motionless he lies, the burning sword in his hand.*
2012/09/28 21:52:12 Dexton says: *The breath gets fainter and fainter, until it subsides...*
2012/09/28 21:52:28 Rumour of Atys says: With the Sword in his hand, as Dexton always had desired, the emperor falls at the city gate.
2012/09/28 21:53:39 Lykos says: *bows down to his father and takes him in his arms*
2012/09/28 21:54:08 Yrkanis says: Dying with the sword in his hands, upright as a warrior. Dexton told that he desired to leave that way.
2012/09/28 21:54:19 Yrkanis says: His wish was fulfilled.
2012/09/28 21:54:24 Yrkanis bows his head.
2012/09/28 21:55:27 Lykos says: Now march on. I shall bring him to the forge and will be back soon.
2012/09/28 21:56:31 Orphie Dradius says: let Dexton's sacrifice not have been in vain. Let us march on slowly
2012/09/28 21:56:50 Yrkanis says: Lykos will join us later, let us go on slowly!
2012/09/28 21:58:56 Rumours of Atys says: Heavy-hearted the homins march on, towards the flaming forest, while kitin hordes storm towards Pyr and threaten to encircle the city.
2012/09/28 21:59:09 Orphie Dradius says: The Kitins dont grant us an easy passage
2012/09/28 22:00:26 Yrkanis joins the battle, bold and determined he is fighting alongside the homins.
2012/09/28 22:02:15 Orphie Dradius says: Please wait here for the other leaders
2012/09/28 22:02:16 Rumours of Atys says: Lykos is paying the last respects to his father. In the magical fires of the forge he gives the corpse of his father to the flames. The holy fires of the forge enwrap the body and turn it to fine ashes in a moment.
2012/09/28 22:05:23 Rumours of Atys says: Again and again the surface opens before the homins, as if the kitins sensed where they were moving, as if they heard the scratch of their feet in the sands.
2012/09/28 22:06:02 Ailan MacKean says: Fight with courage in your hearts!
2012/09/28 22:07:45 Rumours of Atys says: With the ashes of Dexton in an urn Lykos awaits the homins at the entrance to the flaming forest

It is obvious that sharükos Dexton did not die as a warrior to sneak out later via a resurrection pact. That would be absurd. We honor a great warrior and cannot accept a ridiculous afterlife.