discussion about the 3 histories, and things related to making change. - English

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Foren » GENERAL » English » discussion about the 3 histories, and things related to making change.

should each of the 3 rp history be merged into a single history for unity

yes
Atys: Anzhanto, Arfur, Bitttymacod, Fyranna, Jarnys, Manra, Marceline, Naema, Saphron, Tarbu, Wazkin

11 (3)

29.7%

no
Atys: Beepe, Daomei, Rasaya, Zilon

10.8%

yes and i'm willing to help
Atys: Anzhanto, Bitttymacod, Fyranna, Naema, Seternulon, Suboxide, Sygmus

7 (1)

18.9%

yes but i'm not willing to help

yes but i'm not willing to give anything up from my history
Atys: Stitch

1 (1)

2.7%

no because i'm not willing to give up anything from my history
Atys: Meagon, Rasaya

5.4%

yes and i'll give up parts of my history
Atys: Anzhanto, Arfur, Astarth, Bitttymacod, Fyranna, Naema, Rashan, Suboxide

8 (1)

21.6%

Andere
Atys: Aleeskandaro, Bitttymacod, Fyranna, Zhoi

10.8%

Sich enthalten

#39 Eingetragen von Fyranna vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Well said Anzhanto.

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#40 Eingetragen von Bitttymacod vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Well, Mabreka Cho was born in 2485 and is still capable of leading the Zorai, so it would appear that active ages of up to a century or more may be possible or even probable if the homin manages to avoid excessive wear on his Seed due to exposure to Goo or too many resurrections from violent injuries. In the case of Mabreka Cho, of course, there may be extra strength loaned to him by the Kamis.

We do know that some homins' Seeds are more fragile than those of other homins. That some of us have lasted to a significant age is simply a selection factor -- we all know of homins who have fallen by the wayside.

(Bittty was born sometime around 2530 and came to Silan in 2546 so he is somewhere around 45 JY old. His father was born some 20 JY prior, but has not been seen since the Second Swarming, but he had retired to Dyron many years before that. Bittty is beginning to feel the years, but can still beat down kitins. It takes him longer to catch his breath, though. He is also risk-averse, as any adult with experience tends to be.)

I'm still in favor of the "Budapest" solution, but wouldn't mind an "official" history merger for homins who have just arrived in the New Lands.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#41 Eingetragen von Salazar vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [de]

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Bitttymacod (atys)

Well, Mabreka Cho was born in 2485 and is still capable of leading the Zorai, so it would appear that active ages of up to a century or more may be possible or even probable if the homin manages to avoid excessive wear on his Seed due to exposure to Goo or too many resurrections from violent injuries.

Muang Hoi-Gi, the evil Zorai who initiated the assassination of Still Wyler and most likely had more exposure to Goo than any other living homin, is quite a bit older than Mabreka. He studied in Zoran under Nung and then was taken under the wings of Hoï-Cho, but broke with him when the Zorai during the First Swarming left the Old Lands, for Muang decided to stay and fight the Kitins. He's still able to give you a run for your money, this Muang.

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Salazar Caradini
Filira Matia
Royal Historian
Member of the Royal Academy of Yrkanis
First Seraph of the Order of the Argo Navis

#42 Eingetragen von Zhoi vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [de]

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Anzhanto (atys)

Yes, time on Atys is different but that alone made me start thinking that it was time for him to either die a good death or simply vanish. He's done both over the years since 2004. :)

How OLD are your characters homins? Do you role play them old or do you fudge that bit? If you fudge that, how much else can you fudge?

Well, since you are with Ryzom for that long you might remember that there was an interview once with Vince about what had been planned for the aging of characters back in 2004:

A few snippets:

Dev chat : 040304

<Vince> I am Vincent D, and I am in charge of Customer Support at Nevrax amongst lots of other things
<Vince> first I want to make something clear about descendacy
<Vince> It won't be available at release, but you will get it via a patch a few weeks after
<Vince> descendancy, permanent death and growing older are all linked together, they are dependant on each other
<Vince> when you agree with your partner to have a descendance, you and you partner will start to grow older
<Vince> this will last a few months, then your character will die permanently.
<Vince> you will get one child per person
<Vince> But the child is not a noob character with 0 skill ;o)
<Vince> he has a certain percentage of his parents' skills
<Vince> the children will also have a 'special power'
<Vince> the powers also go from parents to children, so if the first child then makes his own child
<Vince> you are not forced to have a child
<Vince> you can play and live forever if you wish ;o)
<Vince> The face of your character will get older indeed
<Vince> you do need a free character slot at that time. But we might change that into a specific slot. And yes, for a while you will have the father and the child on the same account. However you cannot play both at the same time

Later on this whole idea was dropped though, and after release the FAQs on the homepage stated:
F: Altern die Charaktere?
A: Nein, die Homin sind sehr langlebig und verweilen immer im selben Alter.

(roughly translated:
Q: do characters grow older?
A: No, homins are very long-lived and stay at the same age forever)

There was also another statement by Nevrax somewhere mentioning that homins age "only very slowly".

3 mal geändert | Zuletzt geändert von Zhoi (vor 1 Jahrzehnt)

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#43 Eingetragen von Zhoi vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [de]

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Now, back to topic:

Many of our roleplayers have been aware of getting into problems because of the three different server's pasts even before the server-merge. We were told back then by our Event-Team (translated from German to English by me):

Limai

Everyone knows that the events went differently on each Server/Shard. There is no perfect solution for that. The players from Aniro wish that all roleplayers should deal with the individual stories/history of other characters with tolerance and respect. Nobody shall accuse others of their stories being "wrong"/lies. We can only trust in the mutual consideration of roleplayers that they will tolerate little differences.

Nobody wants to sacrifice their character's personal past. Roleplayers want to play with respect for others and expect the same respect for themselves. The alternative would be to define an official past which would force many players and lead to disruptions of personal storylines of characters, instead of just avoiding details of specific events.

Ever since then many of us have been trying hard to avoid mentioning too many details of our specific pasts or phrase it like "in older times/in our part of the world/in our city this and that happened". Using these terms most of us were able to get along quite well I think :)

Unfortunately some players have often insisted that their own ex-server's past has to be accepted by everyone as the one and only past that should count and even should be known to everyone... This has lead to OOC-fights and players calling each other inconsiderate - you can find a number of discussions like that here in these Arispotle-forums. I remember the first argument about the war between Matis and Fyros starting on February 24th 2013 during the first Assembly of the Akenak in Pyr after the symbolic incineration of Emperor Dexton.

We political representatives also argue about the lore-differences in the texts of the 3 languages now and then, trying our best to find compromises and interpretations that will suit everyone somehow... And sometimes we need the Event-Team (playing NPCs like the respected leaders of our nations) to sort things out and tell us their current decisions and directives concerning different topics, which will at least make all of our different informations up until now not so important any longer to be a bone of contention.

So some of us are totally used to these conflicts and difficulties with ironing things out like this for a long time already as you can see.

It's okay with me to "fight it out" as long as people respect each other OOC and are doing their best to find solutions and compromises instead of selfishly demanding of everyone to just change the memories and knowledge of their characters (since the lore in the three language is STILL different if you care to compare) to what happened on another server. And how are we players even supposed to know OOC about everything that happened on other servers in detail? It's immensely hard to find out and even Google-translation sometimes cannot manage to translate some parts. Sadly some people are still trying to force other players to agree with them on "their" past only...

Sure, I would also be okay with a new history for everyone "ordered by above" just as well.

BUT in this case the Event-Team would have to work this one history out! Because I can assure you that whenever we players try to come to terms and work out compromises it hardly ever works without the interventions and decisions of the Event-Team. As I mentioned there are still those players who are not willing to accept that other characters made different experiences and even had different consolidated knowledge (lore).

And here's the major problem. We were told that some Event-Team-members have already started to take a look at the differences in the lore of the three ex-language-servers since... well, it should have been since the server-merge... which started September 29th 2012. More than one year ago. But there's still no "solution" in sight. Some Event-Team-members even do not know anything about the most obvious and biggest lore-differences when we're talking IC about such topics during political discussions...

Considering this I cannot believe that the Event-Team will be able to manage the giant heap of workload to put all three different pasts together in a compromise that everyone could be happy with. Instead the most likely solution would be to let all of us adapt to the past of one ex-server. And like Salazar I fear this "one" server could be no other than the one that had the largest population and provides the most roleplayers up to today: Aniro.

In conclusion: if you want this "one single history", you will have to learn and accept Aniro's past. Or else start all of our characters all over in RP basing them on the lore with no history at all ever since 2525.

3 mal geändert | Zuletzt geändert von Zhoi (vor 1 Jahrzehnt)

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#44 Eingetragen von Anzhanto vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Thanks Zhoi for the reminder about the long lived Homins, I forgot about that.

Zhoi

Ever since then many of us have been trying hard to avoid mentioning too many details of our specific pasts or phrase it like "in older times/in our part of the world/in our city this and that happened". Using these terms most of us were able to get along quite well :)

Now THIS presents a very real possibility to let all three histories be accurate. It would still need some form of official stamp to become LORE but that's the case no matter what.

Consider this

After the Great Swarm, the first one, homins scattered across Atys. Three large groups formed far away from each other. These groups settled back into the old nations of Fyros, Matis, Tryker and Zoraï and lived out the three different histories we all know. This was something of a Kami/Karavan scheme to try and save at least one of the three groups but, to their surprise, all three grew and flourished.

The kitin, however, felt quite threatened by three large bodies of homins and so came about the Second Swarming. The kitin drove all three groups back together. Everyone brought their histories with them. Yrkanis that we remember becomes, City/Capital of the Matis. Mabreka Cho becomes simply the Great Sage. It's not perfect because homins are so long lived that Mabreka and other NPCs have been influencing all three histories and are still alive today. It does, however, give another possibility for how the three histories might be preserved.

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An'Zhanto, Jeweler
Blessed by Ma-Duk
Guardian of the Theocracy
Eldest, Order of the White Lotus Guild Info

#45 Eingetragen von Tamarea vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Hello,

An official answer to this topic has just be written, it will be published as soon as translated.

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)
tamarea@ryzom.com

#46 Eingetragen von Talkirc vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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very excited to see the reply tamarea.

i hope that this new single lore (if that's the plan) will do it's best to support parts of ALL servers, i'm not selfish enough to say ONLY aniro or ari or len's history is the one, as some players have here in this discussion. i'm say make one out of three, or for the better of the game and with the future in mind make a new history, anyone that's not willing to accept it is just out of luck, because if they make one lore, that's what you've got to work with, so like that idea, or don't like it, but that's the best way really, no options, just "here it is" because so long as this muli-history is around the new players won't become a part of the action, and may in fact just not play at all. (i already know of 2 players that i suggested ryzom to for the RP, but after they learned of the 3 histories and the conflicts of them, said they will not play until there's a single history, because as long as there's a conflict, the game is basically broken for NEW rp players.)

no one want's to make a compromise it seams, so i think the dev's should do what they do best and use FORCE. then we'll stop fighting with each other over who's history is right or wrong. for those that don't want to adapt to the new server, i'm sorry, i'd rather give up my little history for the better and the future of the game over all then be selfish and help doom the game because of it.

like it or don't but best thing would be the dev's make new history for the new signal server, because there's only one server now ppl, get used to it, and adapt to it, or move to another game, i honest am really tired of seeing everyone be selfish and demand that they're right and other's are wrong, i say your ALL WRONG, simply because your all too stubborn to adapt to a ever changing world we call ryzom.

that's my final rant on this, i've tried and tried to show that we can work together, but there's a few ppl that just are not willing to, and it's that stubbornness that's killing ryzom's rp, keeping so many that might join in away to start with.

enlighten yourself, be more flexible, bottom line is your all promoting the death of ryzom RP when you can't see past the nose on your face and work together in a game we all love together, for the better of the game, not one's personal history.

ok i'm done wasting my keystrokes.

PLEASE RYZOM DEVELOPERS CREATE A SINGLE NEW HISTORY THAT EVERYONE MUST USE, OR THE ROLEPLAY IS DOOMED, SINCE THE PLAYERS CAN'T AGREE TO WORK TOGETHER, THIS IS THE ONLY OPTION LEFT TO EXPLORE. (anyone that doesn't like that doesn't have to RP on the new server, because this is the same selfish point of view some of you display, i can start over, it won't kill me, in fact that will give my RP a whole new life)

sorry tamarea, didn't mean to go off on a rant, but it seams to me that there's really only one option left at this point to settle all issues, create a totally new history for the new server, and rp will start over new as well.

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Remickla (atys)

Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.

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#47 Eingetragen von Daomei vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Talkirc, I disagree to such a solution. It reminds me to the proverb that for every problem a solution exists that is obvious, simple .. and plain wrong.

I would not say that I would stop roleplay altogether when our past will be genocided in favor of a unified history. But much of the fun will be gone when much of our experiences will be nullified and in effect banned.

I am living in Germany where people experienced an imposed (though by most initially enthusiastically welcomed) unification of very different cultures. Nowadays not few are pretty fed up. Forced levelling will most probably not do much good.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#48 Eingetragen von Suboxide vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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only 1mil dappers if you wanna buy talkirc's rant about this in teamspeak. The file can be delivered as an *.wav *.mp3 *.ogg ...

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#49 Eingetragen von Talkirc vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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now you see the point i'm making daomei, you don't like my idea, joe doesn't like bob's idea, tim doesn't like alex's idea, and so on and so forth.

i'm not saying you have to like it, but i just wish they would do it, so everyone could stop fighting about it, since YOU are one of the players not willing to change, you are one of the players that's the reason we need a forced history. be more flexible and then we won't need a forced history, but since that will never happen, the only option left is to force a single history, if that means that you stop your RP, i'm sorry you feel that way, but it just further show's that your unwilling to yeild to the greater good, for you "the needs of the ONE out weight the needs of the many" i guess.

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Remickla (atys)

Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.

#50 Eingetragen von Suboxide vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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50mil dapper for a recording about talkirc's last reply here but it has to be the longest rant ever I recorded from him

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#51 Eingetragen von Anzhanto vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Tamarea (atys)

Hello,

An official answer to this topic has just be written, it will be published as soon as translated.

That is wonderful news!

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An'Zhanto, Jeweler
Blessed by Ma-Duk
Guardian of the Theocracy
Eldest, Order of the White Lotus Guild Info

#52 Eingetragen von Daomei vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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I can say one thing: there are players here who have dedicated considerable parts of their lives, in this world, and partially even in RL, to become part of the history of the living planet, to have taken part in shaping it and to become part of the memories of future player generations.

Destroying that and levelling it to a makeshift unified history deprives not only those players the fruits of their efforts, but make Atys more alike mainstream games with imposed storylines to which the players have to adapt. That is btw what I hated in Guildwars and made me decide never to touch GW2. I want to play and not to be played with.

I am not totally astonished (sorry Talkirc) that someone who does not bother to contribute to the reconstruction of the camps in our new world does not understand why it is important for those who put huge efforts in shaping the previous history of Atys, be it in saving sharükos Dexton's life or not, in averting or fighting the Matis/Fyros war, be it at the winning side or not, or having played a role in the old temple wars, that their lives on the bark do not become worthless and forcibly rewritten no matter what they did, what they felt.

I am right now putting efforts in influencing our future, be it concerning the camps, or my faction in state of nascence. It is exhausting at times, but I still consider it worth while. My energy and motivation will surely not increase when I recognize that such efforts are not taken serious.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#53 Eingetragen von Talkirc vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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comedy daomei, i do care, i do shape the world, but UNLIKE you, i can accept the change to make the game better for the future. if i have to give up my history, which isn't wrote in stone, so be, it, bottom line, your being selfish becasue your not willing to grow with the game like your claiming, to evolve is to move from one point to another, and guess what, that's exactly what merging the histories would have done, but your not willing to at least try, so enjoy your history, one day you may be the only one playing with it becasue the role play community may die because of your stubborn point of view about how your way is the only right way.

one server, one history, want 3 histories, why don't you, daomei, pay for the other two servers and the admins to run them, they you can have all 3 and keep them seperate. and you can selfishly keep your "correct" history as you see it.

and please don't tell me that i don't take part, while it's not my only reason to play, i do indeed shape the world, but since 90% of the RP doesn't lead to anything but talk and stories, no real actuall content (save for the camp building) then nothing major is lost by building that single history.

but i'm done wasting my time trying to explain to you that being closed minding and saying "i'm the only one with the right history" is going to hurt the game and RP community.

don't like my idea that's fine, i'll respect that, but i dont' have to like it or agree.

doesn't mean that i won't still be there to help you in game.

in the end i'm a homin that helps all other homin in game, so always remember that while i'm one way on the forum i'm still very friendly and helpful in game. (even for those that dont' agree with me on the forum)

but this is where my input stops, becasue bottom line is that i'm done wasting my time, i'll create my own RP, create my own history, does that make it right or wrong, not by the design of ryzom, but for the community it does not help at all, in fact it will only make it worse.

that's all i will say, good day.

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Remickla (atys)

Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.

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