English

I am opening this thread because i am trying to understand a big difference between aniro and leanon/arispotle.
On aniro, extremism was common, and a lot of people played it. We had extremist in almost every camp, including faction and nation. It wasn't strange for a homin to reject some other, only because they were kamist, or matis. In fact, almost every people were doing it, and the system runned fine.

When the server merged, i founded that things were completely differents on leanon/arispotle. When i said i was hating Matis, most of the people were running away, as if i was a monster. When i heard Kara and Kamis exchanged op mats, i couldn't believe it. How can people separated by so many things and a Holy War trade like everyone else ?

The recent event involving Thor (and a little Salazar) woke up a strange feeling in myself. The feeling that my RP was unnecessary. On Aniro, the things my toons said about matis wouldn't have ended in a note to the noble chamber. In fact, it was a common things for matis and fyros to insult each other like that. I understood that some toons might be against racism and for a global unite. But seriously, so many people ? Every leanon/arispotle toon i've heard about it condemned it violently, when aniro toons didn't answered for most of them, or only to show their support to my toon.

So my question is easy : why this kind of RP (almost) didn't exist on your server ? Was it because you don't really see the difference between the game and RL ? Or did a storm crushed every race on your server in a single loving and helping homin ?

If ya look on the MMORPG sites, you'll see that the one facet that Ryzom alwas scored highest was "community". To my mind we have enough unpleasantness in everyone's lives that I find it hard to conceive of "relaxing & enjoying oneself" by being unpleasant to other peeps.

I had a discussion soon after merge about OP mats with a player who stated that he was frustrarted at his guilds lack of numbers/levels as he wanted to attack an OP as that was the only way to get OP mats. I said "did you every try asking for what you needed". There was a long, stunned silence and it was apparent that the thought had never occurred to him.

You can watch the opening of 2001: A Space Odyssey and see man's baser instincts revealed in the discovery of tools ... tools to kill each other to get what we want. But over time we learned that there are easier ways to reach the same goals.. trading and negotiation .. and without a lotta pain and grief .. the process is called civilization. It's just a path I find more appealing.

The history of ryzom is part of it too, when I first started, it was not possible to join a faction, we could buy all the tps on atys and for the most part, we were all neutrals.

Some time later, came the fame patch, that allowed us to declare ourselves karavan or kami, and a lot of us ran around tagged. My tag was always on as part of my toon's roleplay - Atys is a dangerous place, and one can be attacked by the mobs and/or players at any time.

From 2005 until the servers merged earlier this year, I was 'ganked' by a tagged kami player (that is killed while afk or crafting/digging) about 3 times. I engaged in tagged faction pvp probably about that many times as well.

After the servers merged, I started turning off the pvp tag. As some of the players from other servers were different than us, and anyone wearing a faction tag now is likely to be attacked at any time now, digging or not.

We really didn't care what faction someone was in early days, nor up until arispotle was closed down that I recall, we really left the kami lands ops be held by kami guilds and kara land ones were held by the karas.. Sometimes there would be an attack and things changed for a time, but inevitably, things returned back to this state for time and time again. I did have a break due to 'real life' that MMO with less beauty and more ugliness in it for a few years, but that wast the state at 2008 and seemed the state when i returned for a few months in 2010 as well.

But what has always been a constant is the respect players have for each other in Ryzom. The faction is just a grouping within the community, and minou was just about kami at first, and so I'd have had different 'closer' friends in that case, but I still team/hunt/boss hunt or trek with anyone of any faction to this day, even since the merging of servers.

Exteremist roleplay is just not for me, nor never has been. The story isn't about a great war between two factions, as much as homins struggle against the kitins, the factional division playing a small part in that. The races were more divided at first, but time and time again, came together to combat the kitins, and karavan and kami doing the same, side by side. Where is there room for extremism in this story? There isn't unless one wishes to feel marginalized.. I find there's little difference between people's 'roleplay' and their real personalities here.

Because of that, it's hard to accept an extreme roleplay, as it is too easy for this to be taken personally (or be given personally).

+1 for Fyrosfreddy and Minou ^_^

Sorry for my poor english. I think Icus u take the problem by the bad side. In fact, the problems are the following :

- There is the problem that a lot of people make the confusion between the roleplay u have and ur irl personality. Sadly, a lot of people think that if u play an extremist, u are an extremist in real life. Logicly, they play what they want to be in real life... So... problem. On Aniro, we have done a real and deep work of pedagogic explanations about this confusion who can KILL the game. When i read the opinions of my karavan fellows on the marauds, i am shocked because the confusion exists.

- The main problem that we from Aniro have comes from Leanon. But it's necessary to know the history of Leanon. At one moment, they were only 50 on all the server.... So they created the chanchey's system which make screaming french players and this problem about ur roleplay.

You have played perfectly your fyros roleplay, Icus. A lot of players consider u incarnate what the Fyros are. Don't worry about opinions of 2-3 people, play. Playing like that will create game.... in a time when the game is slow, mourning and dying. Be proud and don't ask for comprehension. PLAY ! It's perfect !


And sorry Minou, i like you a lot, u know it, but -1 with your opinion about this because of all i have said ! For example, i will give u a question : Will u be shocked that i do all the possible to destroy the zorai concurrence about water trade from Zorai ?

I am going to give you another example. I play a nationalist Tryker, the cliché even. Other french taliari play like me. In the Assembly of Fairhaven, we monopolized 90% of the time because we attack violently our governement. But it was not bad-seen by observators. Why ? Because we attack violently in the name of democracy, a tryker concept that exists and is revered in irl. So, no problem.

But when some french taliari will call to arms against Zorai... I think the problem will be the same as you ;)

On Leanon, that kind of RP did exist, but it was not the prevailing sort of RP. For example there was one tryker taliar who played tryker extremism in a convincing and entertaining way, and that was much appreciated. But granted, tensions between the nations, peoples, and creeds were mainly carried out in a more moderate style. Main reason was that no so many roleplayers liked to take the stress of credibly playing an extremist.

My impression is that roleplay on Aniro was generally carried out more controversially so that extremism did not aberrate much from the mainstream. To say it somewhat polemically, playing an extremist did not come with a considerable price as extremism usually might come, price like disapproval or contradiction. So it was possibly easier to play an extremist, just joining the crowd, howling with the wolves as a german proverb depicts conformism.

On Leanon, and probably as well on Arispotle, extremist positions, be they religious or nationalist, were nonconformist as far as they occured. At least at Leanon, they were definitely not frowned upon as stated above.

In a way, I am extremistic, too, though a neutral extremist. Born in the prime roots, raised on an Atys Rangers military base after the death of my parents, I am owing all to an international, interracial, and religiously neutral community. My chosen homeland is the desert, where my tryker ancestors lived already before the first great swarming, yet I shall always remain a child of the glowing lands under the bark, lands not only of incredible dangers, but also of incredible beauty, peace, and calm, far above the quarrels of homins on the surface.

Thus I shall never bend my knee before a throne or an altar. Ni dieu ni maitre. But I shall always respect different choices.

Back to the extremism question: I think that extremism is not "violently condemned" by the former lea/ari community, but not considered mainstream. We all should strive to integrate different styles of RP.

Only one comment, some players want to control the roleplay, some others want to be quiet in the game, some others want to have an idealistic world in the game...

But a lot of players say : ryzom don't move. A lot of player play only with their friends, large interactions are rare. I try a lot to begin conversation with people in the game... with an emote of hailing... and nothing.

I play a nationalist and controversal nationalist tryker... and since some declarations declared as extremist... a lot of people who never spoke to me even if i try are telling me.

There were no interests from german roleplayers for the french roleplayers before Icus show the nationalist and wary behavior of his character.... There were no real contact in the Lakes between french taliari and english taliari, the Assembly of FH seemed to english-spoken people like another annoying session... But french taliari attacked violently their government, accusing it of trying to install a tyranny... and suddenly, there is interest.

You can condamn the "extremist roleplayer" but in fact, happily these players exists because the game is living with them. Ohhh... and after u can be happy because u can say "i am a good man/woman, i am not an extremist ! Bouh, bad Icus !" But with Icus, u are playing and not chatting during your forage session !

So, thanks Icus !

Bad and nasty Luth :D

SHIT!!!

I just spent a time commenting on this thread and when I went to post I had to log in again and so I lost 3/4 of an hour's work.

OK, I'm going to try again.

OOC

Commenting to Icus' original post.

Two things:

1. Arispotle suffered from two cases of extremism over the years. One Karavan, One Kami. In each case there were a few people who used the excuse of "It's just RP" to justify their actions as bullies to try to corner the market and force people to acknowledge them as "powerful". This does not help advance the cause of "extremism".

2. The usual "extremist" RP'er takes simple shortcuts and produces less than convincing RP. Given the conditions of 1., it becomes less tolerable.

3. (Yes, I know) There is NO justification for hoarding the riches of Atys in terms of roleplay. Atys has more than enough materials for all of us. Yet most "extremist" roleplay that we saw was aimed at just that. If you read the Holy Words of both the Kami and the Karavan there is an emphasis on conversion rather than subjugation. Sharing materials comes naturally with that if you are role-playing those factions.

4. (Getting close to Douglas Adams here) As Daomei has mentioned, low population yields no incentive to piss off fellow players.

5. (And thanks for all the fish) Arispotle being the Brit/Yank/Oz server (plus Spanish/Rus/Portugese) there is, in the population that plays games a distrust in real life of extremists of any ilk, and that carries over into gameplay. It is not that we did not have role-play, but we did not have a lot of people who enjoyed re-enacting the wars that most of us wish would stop in the so-called real world.

(edit) 6. In OOC terms I much prefer a cooperative to a combative game. So, apparently did most people playing on Arispotle. It was, in part why we came to Ryzom rather than WoW, Rift or any other primarily PvP game. Type begets type. Because we were cooperative, those who preferred extreme PvP left, because we outnumbered them.

My opinions, and worth what you paid for them.

+1 to bittty i think community in this game lead us to befriend each other but it didnt mean when the time was right or called for that we didnt fight each other

I am very surprised. Roleplay conflict doesn't mean that u can't be friend ooc... I am very surprised by this confusion. Surely, the basis of the misunderstanding, in fact.

I am enemy in roleplay with one player who is my friend irl... and there is no confusion between our roleplay and our real life friendrship...

Luth --

Notice that my examples were of people who used an *excuse*. It was not good RP. It was bullying hiding behind the curtain of RP. One cannot separate that out.

I know, but i was answering to Khandoma ;)

Khandy (Hi there and welcome back!) understands that, note the end of her comment. She was one of my favorite enemies back before the merger (when I still fought in OP battles).

(global answer to the ones who are against extremist roleplayers)

So when you were kids you never played "cowboys and indians" games with your friends because this would mean pretending to be ennemies and fight each other ?

Roleplay is like theatre, playing a role... would you go to theatre to watch a play where everybody is friend and everything is fine ? Or would you think it's boring like hell ? In most good plays or good moovies, there is drama and people fighting each other. Why ? Because it's more entertaining !

That's why roleplayers on Aniro liked conflicts between characters and nations... and it doesn't mean conflict between players !!!! It's two different things. You can actually insult your enemy in roleplay and be friend with the guy playing your enemy, and having fun in tell OOC. Have you ever tried to tell an extremist roleplayer and try to play with him before just running from him ?

My character Kalean is a tryker pirate who hates matis, dislikes karavan, and likes stealing dappers to his enemies. Does it make me a bad person in real life ? I'm not killing people and stealing money in real life !

Ryzom is just a game for fun ! Playing a role is part of the fun. Playing a hero or a bad guy is part of the fun.
Just relax and remember that it's NOT for real ! If I'm saying that matis are "chalky faces" this is just a role, I'm not trying to hurt people playing matis.
Your avatar is not yourself. Being bad with your avatar doesn't mean being bad with you. I know sometimes it's hard to see the difference. But if you just take some distance from your avatar and understand that actions againts your avatar are not necessarily actions against YOU, then you can have a better experience in game, less frustration and more fun.

When someone engage a roleplay with you, even as an enemy, this means he wants to play with you. If you just ignore him because is character is rude, you are the one being rude OOC. You reject someone who tries to play with you. Give him a chance ! And if you realy don't like roleplay, then tell him and say it. Unless he's a jerk he won't bother you anymore.