Game mechanics of "evade?" - English

#1 Eingetragen von Sisika(arispotle) vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

I've been able to find lots of info on dodge and parry, but essentially nothing on evade. Could someone please explain the game mechanics of evade? Is your chance of evading an attack based on your stats, or is it a fixed probability?

#2 Eingetragen von Jable vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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I think it is when an attack fails, which depends on the success rate of your action. It could be something that depends on the combat level of both sides too.

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Dandy Highwayman of the Red Ribbon Army

#3 Eingetragen von Vourac(arispotle) vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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if mobs have success rate is it fixed amount for all mobs? <3

Zuletzt geändert von Vourac(arispotle) (vor 1 Jahrzehnt)

#4 Eingetragen von Jable vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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I don't think mobs have a success rate and therefore it's not possible to evade attacks from mobs. :P
I threw some punches with a success rate of 5% at Messakan today and she did evade some of my attacks, while I didn't evade any of hers.

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Dandy Highwayman of the Red Ribbon Army

#5 Eingetragen von Gorran vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Jable

I don't think mobs have a success rate and therefore it's not possible to evade attacks from mobs. :P
I threw some punches with a success rate of 5% at Messakan today and she did evade some of my attacks, while I didn't evade any of hers.

I evade regularly.

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Eldest, Order of the White Lotus

#6 Eingetragen von Jable vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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I'm probably wrong then.

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Dandy Highwayman of the Red Ribbon Army

#7 Eingetragen von Arfur vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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was going to reply but I think I'll evade the question

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .

Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#8 Eingetragen von Sisika(arispotle) vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Nooooooo... don't evade my question! lol

We know that the defender evades when the attacker misses, but what else?

A miss doesn't seem to be simply a failed attack action, unless the success rate numbers reported by the game are very broken. An attack success rate of 75% doesn't result in the defender evading 25% of the time.

#9 Eingetragen von Xatokar vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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No, 75% success rate does not go hit, hit, hit, miss . It is a weighted random chance. Count it 100,000 times and it should come out close to 75%. But in the short term you might succeed 20 times in a row, but that would be rare luck.

Also if attacker is using a range weapon and misses you will not get an evade message as the ammo failed to leave the weapon and didn't go whizzing by your head.

In melee , success rate and level difference affect missing target, adding accuracy reduces misses.

For more exact info, ryzom is open source so you can dig thru the code :)

2 mal geändert | Zuletzt geändert von Xatokar (vor 1 Jahrzehnt)

#10 Eingetragen von Ulykus vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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The game code is somewhat obscure (lots of different cases and modifiers) on that....
- Evade/Miss happens before Dodge/Parry. This can be expected if you compare it to RL fighting but makes little sense in ryzom game mechanics. A missed or evaded attack is a more catastrophic attack failure than dodge or parry and should not prevent the use of after dodge and after parry openings (there should be an after evade opening with double power compared to after dodge/parry).
- Combat level difference is base for evade chance
- Modifiers include at least the short-term debuffs after critical hits. They don't seem to include weapon or armor modifiers.

Anyway, the success chances displayed in client are rough estimates. It's good they are there because they can give hints to improve actions. But they are far from accurate...

#11 Eingetragen von Yuritau vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Ulykus

The game code is somewhat obscure (lots of different cases and modifiers) on that....
- Evade/Miss happens before Dodge/Parry. This can be expected if you compare it to RL fighting but makes little sense in ryzom game mechanics. A missed or evaded attack is a more catastrophic attack failure than dodge or parry and should not prevent the use of after dodge and after parry openings (there should be an after evade opening with double power compared to after dodge/parry).

If there was an 'after evade' opening, it would be most effective against mobs that have a hard time hitting you anyways. It's very likely that you can kill mobs like that easily already, adding something to make it even easier seems unnecessary.

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#12 Eingetragen von Sisika(arispotle) vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Thanks guys. :)

I'm a little skeptical about level difference being the basis for miss/evade, though. I did some limited experiments where the attacker was about +60 levels higher than the defender, and vice versa. And in each case, the defender seemed to evade about 5-10% of the time (sorry, I don't have an exact count). This is with a large enough sample size that a strong difference should be apparent in the data.

Also, anecdotally, it seems that when running from a mob 100+ levels higher than you, you still have a significant chance of evading an attack.

#13 Eingetragen von Katulis(arispotle) vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Sisika

Thanks guys. :)

I'm a little skeptical about level difference being the basis for miss/evade, though. I did some limited experiments where the attacker was about +60 levels higher than the defender, and vice versa. And in each case, the defender seemed to evade about 5-10% of the time (sorry, I don't have an exact count). This is with a large enough sample size that a strong difference should be apparent in the data.

Also, anecdotally, it seems that when running from a mob 100+ levels higher than you, you still have a significant chance of evading an attack.

Mhm, wouldn't say that's anecdotal. A level 1 player should be able to survive 1 attack in every 250 a master puts on, right? :) let's give him a chance..

Anyway. I have asked this question in Uni, and i'm glad it's brought to forums.

I will try and log the ammount of dodge/evade when doing missions in different regions, but it will take a long time to get any statistically significant numbers... if anyone had a better idea or wanted to share data, it would be interesting.

Zuletzt geändert von Katulis(arispotle) (vor 1 Jahrzehnt)

#14 Eingetragen von Wildsman vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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Here's a little bit of hard data that might shed some light on the subject.

Experiment 1.
Homin (66 close combat, attacking with a daggar) vs. Blooming Stingas (level 75). Data is for the homin's attack only.

With an attack action with a 29% success rate, there were 27 misses out of 188 attacks (18% misses).
With an attack action with a 95% success rate, there were 0 misses out of 137 attacks (0% misses).

Results of Experiment 1 indicate that misses are likely related to action "success rate" (with higher success rate leading to fewer misses). However "success rate" is a very poor predictor of the frequency of misses.

Experiment 2.
Homin (101 2h slashing, attacking with 2h sword; parry 119; attack success rate 75%) vs. Furious Wombais (level 190).

Wombai attacks. Out of 75 attack actions, 80% hit, 16% are parried by the homin, and 4% are misses.

Homin attacks. Out of 106 attack actions, 25% hit, 70% are dodged by the wombai, and 5% are misses.

While the data set for Experiment 2 is too small to determine whether or not relative level is a determining factor in misses/evades, there does not seem to be an appreciable difference in frequency of misses/evades between two combatants that are 89 levels apart.

#15 Eingetragen von Katulis(arispotle) vor 1 Jahrzehnt Melden | Zitieren [en]

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actually combat_phrase.cpp
has all the info.

EDIT: if i get my hands to figure that out into human language, will post here. No promises.

Zuletzt geändert von Katulis(arispotle) (vor 1 Jahrzehnt)