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#1

I'm aware not everyone would like a completely free forum between the other account dependent forums. The idea behind are e.g. these 2 scenarios:

1. Imagine a player has some trouble with his account and is looking for help in the forum. Bad luck: With his account not working he can't ask, writing a ticket his last and only chance.

2. Potential but yet undecided new players have some questions which are essential for the decision to make an account at all. Basic things like "does Ryzom have PVP and how exactly does it work?" for instance. Bad luck again since this player has no account yet and can't ask.

Of course such a completely free forum needs to be administrated and under strong rules. Any post that even slightly smells like spam or troll post could and should be deleted immediately and without any further comment. There also should be the common anti spam-bot question before anyone could post.

It's sure some extra work, but please take this whole idea as some sort of 'extended advertising': Players new to Ryzom would feel more welcome while on the other hand this could prevent lots of frustration for those players, who never would have started to play at all with the right information at first.

#2

1. An input form with a captcha check, accessible from the main homepage (by a link "contact support") would do the job. I wouldn't expect CSRs to frequently poll the forums for new support requests. But with that form, an "event" / alarm could be triggered, like when contacting a CSR via CEB. Forums IMHO primarily exist for things that enjoy public interest.

2. Bad luck, your mentioned newbie seemingly isn't willing or versed enough to read a simple homepage (where many details of that kind can be found on); and you expect him to actually *phrase* forum entries ?
Such "vital" questions should be (and are) answered on the main homepage that introduces fundamental aspects of the ryzom-specific gameplay, background story and world. No need for an open forum that would be spam-prone; and potentially unstable due to allowing unknown entities not possessing a regular game account to put posts in..
Instead one should extend our homepage if neccessary.

Isn't it very unlikely that a (potential) newbie first comes, reads and studies the forums for weeks to exactly ponder the risk of registering a new account, until he finally decides to venture registering and downloading the game and irretrievably changing his life forever?
Isn't it by far more likely that a newbie will quickly skim through the homepage and forums, and finally feels nosy enough to just fetch the client and start the game to *see* what's inside with his own eyes instead of making dry runs in the forums for weeks?

Apart from that, the customer retention IMHO is better when newbies are guided *into* and *within* the game and enabled to experience Atys on their own.

Edit: Removed a word that was misunderstood as a flout. Thanks for your mail.

Last edited by Talya (9 years ago)

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[ˈtʌʎˌjaː ˈʃʌtˑənˌtans] - The wog with the whip! Always takin' care for purposive Ryzom development and conductive community behavior via appropriate amounts of well-placed criticism.
Botherin' homins since Aug '06 - Nuttin' ta lose, but a bad rep.
DE, EN, C++, ASM, MHD, ahd, nl (Ik werk eraan als een ploegpaard), it, lat

#3

Just decided to take your sprawling signature literally. :-P

#4

Talya (Leanon)
*snip* Apart from that, the customer retention IMHO is better when newbies are guided *into* and *within* the game and enabled to experience Atys on their own.
Depends on the newbie - every human being is different. I don't really like to ask stuff ingame. Back in 2008 I didn't even get any answers when asking my first question about the game on the Universe-chat at primary time...

Why don't we try to learn by studying the old "newbie forum"? Like the german one: http://forums.ryzom.de/forumdisplay.php?f=89 This forum had 3,568 threads (!) since 2004. Does this look like an "useless" forum to you? ;)

* you could find important informations (how to contact the support, don't give out passwords), "tutorials" and/or "tips and tricks for newcomers" in there. It was a place to find a lot of useful information about the game - stuff that wasn't covered on the homepage - easily at one glance

* experienced players would use the forum as a way to talk to newcomers, offer their help and tell them about stuff they thought important

* some newbies liked that forum as an opportunity to just say "hello, I'm new" or "hello, I'm back"

* some newbies gave their feedback about their first impression of the game there or stated their opinions to threads and topics in the main-forum where they weren't allowed to write at that time

* and of course newbies DID ask questions at the time the old forum was still active - masses of questions

- they asked about technical problems, like with installing and starting the game. They weren't able to ask about that ingame because their game didn't even run yet. There's a Linux- and a Mac-version too today so there might be even more questions about technical issues. Okay, I know that non-registered players can use the technical forum - but will the newcomers themselve realize this? MMORPG-experienced newbies might be used to go to the "new-player-forum" to ask about technical problems...

- there have been questions in the old "newbie-forum" about the size of the community, about how many players would engage in PvP (which cannot be described on the homepage of course), if this or that kind of feature was ingame (but maybe not listed on the homepage), what about this or that they've been hearing about, which kinds of actions would be allowed, about what skills they should learn first/soon, about the Ryzom Ring (R2), about events, treks, prime-roots, crafting, harvesting, roleplaying, when would be the best time to leave Silan, and hundreds of other common questions

- and of course they didn't only ask about facts but also for the opinion of others like "is this game worth a try for a player-type like me?" - it's rather common for some people to ask stuff like that before even starting to play. Everyone knows that descriptions on the homepages will try to make the game look as good as possible - but this is never the whole truth ;)

EDIT: sorry for editing so much, my English isn't so good and I can always find some more errors *sweats*

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Zhoi (9 years ago)

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#5

@Rubinstein
.. just because I don't share your opinion and argued against it? .. Quite poor. Oo
This is, at least, a discussion forum. Having people voicing *their* opinions related to your own one with a few being pro and con is normal business.
If you thereby feel offended, you should rather reconsider your arguments than to decide to completely ignore other statements.

Last edited by Talya (9 years ago)

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[ˈtʌʎˌjaː ˈʃʌtˑənˌtans] - The wog with the whip! Always takin' care for purposive Ryzom development and conductive community behavior via appropriate amounts of well-placed criticism.
Botherin' homins since Aug '06 - Nuttin' ta lose, but a bad rep.
DE, EN, C++, ASM, MHD, ahd, nl (Ik werk eraan als een ploegpaard), it, lat

#6

Talya, you've got my answer per mail

#7

Zhoi (Leanon)
Depends on the newbie - every human being is different.
It's not about making it perfect for absolutely *everyone*. It's about tendencies.

Zhoi (Leanon)
I don't really like to ask stuff ingame.
Maybe others do. Every human being is different.

Nearly everytime when I saw a newbie joining the game and asking the first questions in the universe chat, he's been showered with answers, not duplicates but quadlicates and more.. I wasn't concerned about him not to get an answer, but about him not being able to filter the essence out of that "stimulus satation" ..

Zhoi (Leanon)
This forum had 3,568 threads (!) since 2004. Does this look like an "useless" forum to you? ;) [...] stuff that wasn't covered on the homepage
Yes. If all (or most) of this information would be essential, it would mean that any newbie has to read these threads before being able to savvy what's going on here Oo .. Yeah, great game.
I bet that the oh-so precious content of all 3,568 Threads can be merged down to a few loose-fitting pages. Introducing common caveats, game mechanics, providing easy ways to contact the support (and, for example, the mentioned input form :P) .. and made for easy reading. If you feel addressed, you may make it more easy for newbies by asking a csr if you're allowed to write that few pages :P

Zhoi (Leanon)
* experienced players would use the forum as a way to talk to newcomers, offer their help and tell them about stuff they thought important
Can be done better ingame. Other important stuff belongs to the page mentioned above.

Zhoi (Leanon)
* some newbies liked that forum as an opportunity to just say "hello, I'm new" or "hello, I'm back"
New players need an account to play. So if they decided to present themselves to the community as "new player", ..
Old players already *have* an account and can post into the forums, whether active or not.

Zhoi (Leanon)
* some newbies gave their feedback about their first impression of the game there or stated their opinions to threads and topics in the main-forum where they weren't allowed to write at that time
First impressions aren't "complete" if they don't encompass their experience ingame also. So, account needed.

Zhoi (Leanon)
* and of course newbies DID ask questions at the time the old forum was still active - masses of questions
And yes, they still can. By registering.
* Technical problems could be solved by filling that mentioned input form, and by a additional "knowledge base" where CSR's post their experience with common issues and solutions.

* The size of the community is unknown and can only be estimated - official stats would be nice.
* How many players engage in PvP depends on the kind of fight.
* Which kinds of actions would be allowed, about what skills they should learn first/soon, about the Ryzom Ring (R2), about events, treks, prime-roots, crafting, harvesting, roleplaying, when would be the best time to leave Silan, and hundreds of other common questions can be basically answered oh the homepage. And if someone is interested in much more details, he should consider registering an account.

* "is this game worth a try for a player-type like me?" - it's rather common for people to field this in a thousand different ways. And that player isn't wiser afterwards, but filled with a thausand foreign opinions.


I'm not sure that you, Zhoi, got the hang on the fact that the question of this thread is: Is it necessary or of use to make it possible for guests not possessing a valid game account to write into the forums?

But the question should be, seemingly: Why the hell is it so risky or difficult to just register an account and afterwards being able to do all the things mentioned above ?!

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[ˈtʌʎˌjaː ˈʃʌtˑənˌtans] - The wog with the whip! Always takin' care for purposive Ryzom development and conductive community behavior via appropriate amounts of well-placed criticism.
Botherin' homins since Aug '06 - Nuttin' ta lose, but a bad rep.
DE, EN, C++, ASM, MHD, ahd, nl (Ik werk eraan als een ploegpaard), it, lat

#8

Talya (Leanon)
But the question should be, seemingly: Why the hell is it so risky or difficult to just register an account and afterwards being able to do all the things mentioned above ?!

Because "registering and downloading the game ... " can "irretrievably chang(e) (your) life forever"
(Talya, Post No. 2, this thread)

HIC SVNT KITINS


0 :-)

Last edited by Nuzanshi (9 years ago)

#9

Ecce bestiae permagnae! Kitinae! Tibi subveniemus, Nuzanshi! Ad illa arma!

Last edited by Talya (9 years ago)

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[ˈtʌʎˌjaː ˈʃʌtˑənˌtans] - The wog with the whip! Always takin' care for purposive Ryzom development and conductive community behavior via appropriate amounts of well-placed criticism.
Botherin' homins since Aug '06 - Nuttin' ta lose, but a bad rep.
DE, EN, C++, ASM, MHD, ahd, nl (Ik werk eraan als een ploegpaard), it, lat

#10

Hm, Talya; I'm asking two totally different questions:

1. why should there not be a newbie-subforum? Does the abstinence of such a MMORPG-typical subforum provide any benefits at all?

2. why not make this newbie-forum, if it should ever be set up, accessible for non-registered guests too?

The official news, the general forum, the technical forum, this very bug-comment-notes-forum and other subforums are presently accessible for non-registered players in this forum you're reading right now… http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/?page=topic/view/6663/1#1 You see: it's already been decided that these subforums will stay accessible for non-registered players, at least for now. Isn't this the answer to your question somehow, Talya?

As long as there is a subforum for newcomers, it will be used. Quod erat demonstrandum. Here's proof again: http://forums.ryzom.de/forumdisplay.php?f=89 had 3,568 threads since 2005 (sorry for accidentally writing 2004 in the upper post!), and http://forums.ryzom.com/forumdisplay.php?f=87 had 1,378 threads since 2005.

As long as such a subforum is too hard to find, it won't be used much or maybe won't be used at all of course.
Hard facts again: only 26 threads in the old English Ryzom-newcomer-forum since May last year (excluding older stickies), and only 3 (!) threads in the old German Ryzom-newcomer-forum since May last year (excluding older stickies again)...

My examples only pointed out for what kind of topics a newbie-forum is normally being used and appreciated for. So your "replies" to the selection of topics from the old forum are quite off-topic, Talya; even though they are interesting :)

You're complaining about non-"essential" information, unnecessary questions, useless repeats of same-old questions, questions that cannot be really answered well / competently, personal opinions being no help to newcomers even if they asked for it, and how wrong it is to not want to register before using a (newbie-)forum...

Funny - isn't this like complaining about the everday imperfection of mankind? :D

An absence of a newcomer-forum can't prevent these typical occurrences from happening, you know? ;) They will still go on; only changing to different platforms. What's "better" about that?

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Zhoi (9 years ago)

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