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#16 Added by Revvy 5 years ago [en] 

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*del* personnal attack are not allowed

Last edited by Tykus (5 years ago)

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#17 Added by Siela 5 years ago [en] 

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Jahuu

To fix what I think is issue in here tho; How about when moving from red to yellow tag, you have 24h timer on yellow tag before leaving?

You attack someone
=> you gotta stay yellow tagged for 24h

You accidentally click tag, you try it or havent attacked anybody
=> same 30/2 min timer as now to get rid of it.

Excellent, +1000

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#18 Added by Lacuna 5 years ago Multilingual 

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Siela
Jahuu

To fix what I think is issue in here tho; How about when moving from red to yellow tag, you have 24h timer on yellow tag before leaving?

You attack someone
=> you gotta stay yellow tagged for 24h

You accidentally click tag, you try it or havent attacked anybody
=> same 30/2 min timer as now to get rid of it.

Excellent, +1000
Damn i am in agreement with two males, hangs head in shame.  But Jahuu's suggestion is good :)

Last edited by Lacuna (5 years ago)

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#19 Added by Sinvaders 5 years ago [en] 

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Victoriacamper
I never mentioned portals or tp, and I happen to know my game enough. If I were to be locked under pvp tag for 24h it would force me to stay at a portal or tp in order to avoid being chain killed. *Your* point is to give it RP meaning but some of us don't want to be imposed these RP choices. If you want to RP and do it being pvp tagged so be it, but don't force your opinions down our throats by changing already existing and working mechanisms just because you want to be able to kill someone for 24h.

I think my character is buggy then, I'm always tag and I am never been chainkilled :/ Shall I open a support ticket ?

#20 Added by Mithian 5 years ago [en] 

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I would also add....

You have your point of view and that's your right to express it, but also... That's our to remind you that you won't be involved on it since..... you don't tag anyway. And sadly, most of people who comment it on a bad way nor say something constructive are people who never tagged in their Ryzom Life or maybe once.

I do agree with J² proposal on a +10000. Seems to be a fair point that if you do tag and attack someone, the, you're locked yellow flag for 24h, otherwise, no change.

Also, it was NEVER about being red flag for 24h.... It would means you cannot use TP for 24 hours, but... When i read on Uni Channel " What is red flag " from players who are playing Ryzom for years.... I guess that explain lot of things.

#21 Added by Victoriacamper 5 years ago [en] 

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*Del* personnal attack are not allowed

Now, on the matter, what you fail to see here is, not everyone wants to be "open for attack"/yellow tagged for 24h in a row. Sinvaders may not have been chain killed ever because maybe he doesn't have enemies? I don't know. But the current status of pvp tag prevents that.

Its actually very simple, you want to be open for fight: You tag. You no longer want to be open for fight?: You detag.

Why, please explain why or how it is an abuse no longer wanting to be tagged? Why should someone be forced to stay open for fight (yellow tag)? Other than the intent to keep killing him/her after the 30m timer?

That in mind I have to disagree with Jahuu as well. If the 30m window is too short to get your revenge a slight prolongation should suffice, say 1h instead? but why on Atys does one *have* to stay tagged for one whole day in order to please others' selfish motives?


Ps. I don't know Sinvaders. But lets take me as an example, imagine how many people hate me even though none of the up until now repliers have ever played with me, how many do you think would chain kill me had they the chance?

Ps#2.
Mithian
You have your point of view and that's your right to express it, but also... That's our to remind you that you won't be involved on it since..... you don't tag anyway.
Do tell me your point of view, but realise your way to play this game is not the same as everyone else's and everything anyone says should be respectully criticised, and not shot down because "she's an alt or a troll", when you don't even know me ;-)

Edited 5 times | Last edited by Tykus (5 years ago)

#22 Added by Mithian 5 years ago [en] 

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I don't even know why should i keep reply to someone who can't post on Forum with his/her main toon but using an alt for it... So, that will be the last time i will.

What you don't get is... Even 1h isn't enough, since, you can just do the same.

I will do an example to try to show you what we are actually talking about:

EX:

1. You've found Madakoo ( or what boss you wish, whatever ) and you are tagged.

2. An other team come up, they aren't tagged.

3. They wait until the Boss is like 15% HP and tag.

4. They kill you, take the boss , kill it and loot it while you're coming back.

5. They run out, wait 30 mins on a safe zone ( Vortex, TP ) and they untag.

*Del* No tag no problem

Why ? Because you use the game mechanics on a way that will give you advantage ( If you're able to down the team who is actually "challenging" the boss, ofc )

And, on this point, i don't see any difference than using Campfire to grind easier. The game allowed you to do it, you did it, as simple as that.

* grab a bucket and wait to collect tears *

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Tykus (5 years ago)

#23 Added by Revvy 5 years ago [en] 

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cf. read Mithian post.

*Del* No personnal attack allowed

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Tykus (5 years ago)

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#24 Added by Sinvaders 5 years ago [en] 

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@Victoriacamper There is no need to say more since your assumption is wrong. You do NOT get chain killed by being tag. And to answer to another assumption you do, yes i do have many ennemies who kill me when they see me or at least try (not recently tho, but it already happened tto them to drag me aggro in the face while I was digging, they were NOT tag and still looking to kill me with another way).
It also already happend that some homins where hunting me and playing seek & hide stuff (was really fun back then btw).

Oh and since 2008 (or something like that), I have my tag ON (except after they restored my toon and when i'm engaged in OP battle (because in that case I do not want to flag because I want to be able to TP to get back in the fight as soon as possible).
Will I remove my tag ? No.

I think we do not have the same definition of chain killed.

PS: The situation described by Mithian is happening more often that you might think. Will I remove my tag while doing a boss ? God now, I want a game where people can interact each others not just looking at them.

Last edited by Sinvaders (5 years ago)

#25 Added by Victoriacamper 5 years ago [en] 

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*Del* Useless comment

Last edited by Tykus (5 years ago)

#26 Added by Revvy 5 years ago [en] 

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*Del*
Im asking you something that you fail to answer it seem :P
So i will repeat for the last time, since it seem needed for you.

How would you prevent PvP tag abuse?

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Tykus (5 years ago)

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#27 Added by Victoriacamper 5 years ago [en] 

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Well, Mithian I'm sorry to break it up to you, but it is very clear this is a risk you accept when you tag, you also have the chance of deactivating your tag while you kill the boss.

Eventually, you got to take responsability for your gameplay actions, and not pretend to impose a measure on the rest of players because of something YOU chose.

#28 Added by Victoriacamper 5 years ago [en] 

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Sinvaders
I don't see any exploit by attacking people who are PvP flags. And if the guy is only focusing its alt

Revvy, being attacked while you're pvp tagged is not an abuse, its the game mechanics, so I'm sorry if i'm failing to address your question but its not an exploit, its a disregard of game mechanics on your part, like I just said to Mithian, don't want to be attacked: Don't tag, its simple and its how the pvp tag is designed.

@Mithian
Tamarea
a) Theft of Bosses or Named

A Boss or Named belongs to the first team that has locked it, as long as the lock is active. (See https://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/27212 for more information.)
A second team may assume the Boss or Named only if it is not yet locked or it is unlocked. To do this, it can exclusively:
Fight the first team in PvP

Mithian
* grab a bucket and wait to collect tears *
You're kind of the one whos crying here, about being killed under tag haha this turned unexpectedly hilarious

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Victoriacamper (5 years ago)

#29 Added by Gidget 5 years ago [en] 

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*Del* this has nothing to do with the discussion

*Del* this has nothing to do with the discussion


@Mithian - You are still overlooking the fact that 30m is still a considerable portion of the available playtime for many folks. That forces many to choose between wasting up to half their game night cowering in safety or leaving themselves vulnerable to revenge. However, if you wished to extend it to a more reasonable amount of time then I could go along with that. My reasoning is that 24h pretty much ruins two nights of gaming, and will result in fewer people tagging... possibly even fewer people playing, period. To put it in perspective, two nights is all many folks have available available to play for the week, which makes it a more consequential decision for them than it may be for you. A 24h cooldown is pretty much saying that you don't want folks who are not willing to perma-tag to play, and I doubt that that is the message you want to send. Even a 12h cooldown that will be a problem for the rest of the night but go away by the next time you log in again would be far better. Still consequential, but not nearly as problematic as throwing your entire weekend away over one button-click.

As for the boss-stealing exploit, a more novel fix might be to have the boss call some of it's guards over if additional homins get into close proximity of the team that is already engaging it. Not too many, mind you, but enough to even the odds so that both teams have to divide their attention between PvP and PvE.

Last edited by Tykus (5 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#30 Added by Aleeskandaro 5 years ago [de] 

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Even though Lacu's intention seems very interesting and constructive, I disagree that elongating the cooldown timer of PvP flag results in a stronger bound between RP and PvP, in contrary, the proposed change could have a very negative impact for some/most of us.

PvP tag is per se a RP stance, as it shows the readyness/openness for battle of any given character at a given time. However as many things in life, such readiness for battle is not permanent, especially in a world where there are so many other things to do than fight, and which are much more feasible if no one can attack you while you're doing them e.g. digging, crafting, training a skill and and and.

Locking someone under the effect of PvP Tag not only would force them to receive any incoming attacks and implies then a disruption in any other activities a homin might want to take part in; it also doesn't add any depth to the roleplay of being "perma-tagged", which is already doable without any change. And also, it sets the ground for exploitation as some people have already mentioned on this thread.

I did a tiny experiment by tagging up while I was naked in a non-pvp zone, the result: i was killed every 6 minutes for half an hour, without any provocation or RP justification, so no, I don't want to stay tagged for 24h just so that this can go on longer and I can't do whatever thing I want to do and currently can.

As for the "exploit" some of you have mentioned here, while I don't involve in those practices, i find it completely normal that anyone can attack a tagged team in order to steal a boss, it's a valid game mechanism and explicitly allowed in our CoC. The fact that people do it though, contrary to the common courtesy rules, lies probably on the fact that PvP doesn't have much of an appeal these days, the biggest motivation for PvP is not letting your adversary get a boss or sup or whatever thing, of which everyone already has a bunch of. If there was a deeper story behind it, it might be more interesting, and people might find a motivation in order to stay tagged longer without it being imposed on them.

That being said, if 30m definitely isn't enough to get your revenge, maybe extend the timer to 40m or 1h. 24h seems excessive and would be discouraging for many.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Bisugott (5 years ago)

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Bisugott(Atys)


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