DISCUSSIONS AROUND ONGOING PROJECTS


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#46 Report | Quote[en] 

Thank you, Mjollren.  It's been a while, and now that I think of it, there might have been two lower level players battening on my dig the last time...

The real point is as a q250 digging q150, my cp-er gets nothing.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#47 Report | Quote[en] 

Bitttymacod
Alts are a part of the game. They have been since the beginning.  Some players have them as fronts for storage guilds, healer slaves, or cp slaves.  As far as that goes, slavery is illegal in the Four Nations, so they should be freed (look -- an opportunity for roleplay!).  Other players define their alts and make them into interesting characters in their own right. 

I don't see the devs getting rid of alts.  Period.  Even if they wanted to, I would fight it.
The quote is wrong my post was quoted by someone else ^^

Alts exist in nearly all MMO.
I see few different alt type
those how are used as storage extension. It's the simpliest way to have what we cannot get with our main char because the game do not alow us to buy or rents storage extension.
How many alt for storage could be droped if we where able to buy/rent storage extension ? I'm pretty sure the number is obscene !

Then we have alt used for help will XP, some exist because of the lack of population the other are used make the game simplier and btw avoid the risk of DP witch is part of the game.

Bitttymacod
Bots are a  different matter and far harder to locate and manage.  Personally I don't see why anyone would bother to bot a cp-er.  It's too easy to do it without botting.   Bot healers have been a problem in the past, but are relatively easy to spot.  Take video and report to the CSRs.   They move slowly, but they do move.
When a CP is used, you remove the risk of death, so I whould not be suprise if few players use bot for both, digger and CP.


P.S.  I do not have a cp or a healer alt. 

Any time I have used a cp-er it has been to advance the level of a new player (often, but not always, f2p).  Since I have have dig masters in all ecosystems, a q150 limit would mean that I could not help a f2p newbie level digging -- I get no xp for digging q150, so they don't either.  (Even digging q250 with a cp-er in team, they get generally 1000xp or less per node.) I do not see what giving the mats to the newbie would do.  Dappers from selling mats or xp for crafting them don't give them xp in harvest.
Dig his node instead of using him as a CP. He will have XP.

Last edited by Ekoh (7 years ago)

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#48 Report | Quote[fr] 

"Dig his node instead of using him as a CP. He will have XP."

Depending on the freemium level in can really slow down your extraction speed (he will not be able to spawn that much sources and they will not stay up the same amount of time)

Otherwise, I aggreed with what you said Ekoh.

#49 Report | Quote[en] 

First and foremost when we talk about Cp'ers my alt is completely secondary in my mind when I am talking about the changes. The main point is that if the free changes brought people into the game like we hoped it would then we would have people that have no idea how to dig and we would want to power level them to a point that they had the abilities and we could show them everything in one go. As a 250 crafter I have no use for 150 mats even for over crafting right now (this is not the case for everyone), and as a 250 digger in every land I can dig in every land at 250 and therefore I do not want to dig at qlty 150...the mats are useless to me. I want to be able to help someone and dig mats that are useful to me at the same time. That is where I am coming from in this.

I dug for the first 5 years of this game without and alt cp'er and when I logged into the changes I went right back to digging with out him. Like I said in my first post a free cp'er is a nicety not a need and is not the reason I mentioned the change at all.

#50 Report | Quote[en] 

Ekoh
The quote is wrong my post was quoted by someone else ^^
 

Fixed -- sorry for the misattribution.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#51 Report | Quote[en] 

Ekoh
Dig his node instead of using him as a CP. He will have XP.

I am not at all sure this is true if dig is limited to q150 and I am at q250.  I will have to run a test or two.

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#52 Report | Quote[en] 

FOR SCIENCE!

Gentlehomins of the New Trykoth Council of Scientists, and to all others to whom this message may come, Greetings!

It had come to my attention that a good many theoretical statements had been expressed, even by myself, in regard to the matter of how much experience a novice harvester might achieve when helping a master harvester, either as a careplanner or as a prospector.  It struck me that theoretical considerations aside, it would be easy to test the matter by actually digging under the circumstances in question.  It is upon this foundation that the NTCS is built!

Therefore I, Master Harvester MacOd Bittty, Associate Scientist NTCS, together with my beautiful and talented lab assistant, Crazyitzy, traveled first to Fount, then to Enchanted Isles and finally to Loria.  Crazyitzy being of the 64th rank as measured by the trainers and being of the the class of homins who play freely, provided the proper control for this study.  In all cases she and I were linked in a team blessed by the Powers. (*)

In Fount the maximum quality of material that can be extracted is of the 15th level.  We tested both the situation of her pulling nodes to the surface and myself harvesting, and of my pulling nodes to the surface and she careplanning for me as I harvested.  In all cases I dug with stanzas of extraction to the 25th level.  After our tests in Fount we then proceeded to Enchanted Isles and then to Loria just inside the gate to Avendale. Our results are tabulated at the bottom of this report (XP is always for the novice since the Master gains none by any harvesting action).

Results:
1) Even with a 3rd degree  pick (the maximum that the Powers allow her to wield) Crazy was able to bring nodes to the surface in all three regions and to careplan when I was harvesting them.
2) While she was careplanning for me, the quality of materials that I could extract was limited to the 15th level, regardless of the region.
3) If she careplanned for nodes that I had brought to the surface, she received significantly more experience than if she brought the nodes to the surface.
4) If she brought the nodes to the surface but did not careplan, she received the same experience, but I was able to harvest materials of the highest quality!

Conclusions:
1) If a novice does careplanning for a Master she will always gain more experience if the nodes are brought to the surface by the Master than if the nodes are brought to the surface by herself.
2) It is the careplanning action of the novice who plays freely that reduces the quality of the extracted materials. However, if the novice brings the nodes to the surface, she will obtain similar experience whether or not she performs careplanning actions.
3) If the only goal is to increase the experience of the novice, then having the Master prospect and extract and the novice perform careplanning yields the best results, albeit with lower quality of extracted materials.
4) If the desire of the team is to obtain high quality materials while assisting the novice, the best plan is to have the novice prospect and the master dig without careplanning assistance.

I realize that these results have not been verified in other lands, but we have in previous studies shown no reason to expect that our favored lands here in Aeden Aqueous are that much different from the lands in other nations.

Respectfully submitted.
MacOd Bittty,
Associate Scientist, NTCS

Supplemental Data.

Fount (15th level)
Novice prospect, Master harvest  - XP = 1457 (13 mats)
Master prospect, novice cp   - XP = 2483 (15 mats)

Enchanted Isle (20th level)
Novice Prospect, Master harvest (novice cp) - XP = 1511  (15 mats,  materials limited to q150)
Master prospect, novice cp - XP = 2483 (11 mats, q150)

Loria (25th level)
Novice prospect, Master harvest (novice cp) - XP = 1377 (11 mats, q150)
Master prospect, novice cp - XP = 2483 (8 mats, q150)
Novice prospect, Master harvest (NO CP) - XP = 1377 (11 mats, q250 !!)



[OOC]
(*) Crazyitzy is F2P and level 64, and we played in team.
((3rd degree = q150 pick. Regions of 15th, 20th, 25th level = (q150, 200, 250 region) ))[/OOC]

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#53 Report | Quote[fr] 

Merci beaucoup Bittty pour cette étude dont la rigueur scientifique ne cède en rien à l'ingéniosité de la démarche.
J'espère que cela nous permettra à tous d'avancer vers une meilleure compréhension du forage atysien

Kyriann

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Kyriann Ba'Zephy Rie
Cheffe de la guilde Bai Nhori Drakani
Taliar
Mère de famille

#54 Report | QuoteMultilingual 

Multilingual | [English] | Français
The careplanning limitation will be removed in severalhours: http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/27050/4

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Tamarea
Ryzom Team Manager
(FR / EN / ES)

tamarea@ryzom.com

#55 Report | Quote[fr] 

Tamarea
La limitation impliquant les soigneurs de source va être supprimée dans quelques heures : http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/27050/4
Nous privilégions ainsi l'aspect social du jeu plutôt qu'une logique rigide en terme de limitation du mode Free to Play.
Parce que jouer avec des alts c'est social ?
Si vous traitez le financement de Ryzom avec autant de légèreté, je crains qu'on ne puisse plus en profiter très longtemps.

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#56 Report | Quote[en] 

Not every f2p that careplans a Master forager is an alt, and careplanning is a very good way for new players to find and learn from other players. Since that use is so important for real players, should we punish them because many other care planners are also alts- not that alts are even wrong in this situation.

#57 Report | Quote[en] 

I’m glad you reverse this cp limitation, it’s mostly irrelevant for my digging style, but it did not fit with the other changes at all and was likely confusing.

I’m also watching this „alts are a bad thing for Ryzom“ discussion.
Consider this, no-one knows who my main char is because I have none, practically all of my chars are alts (older and younger homins, more or less played). Including 2 annually paid Premium subs. Having hordes of alts is just my way of enjoying role play games and it’s not yours to judge others play styles.

#58 Report | Quote[en] 

Placio
Not every f2p that careplans a Master forager is an alt, and careplanning is a very good way for new players to find and learn from other players. Since that use is so important for real players, should we punish them because many other care planners are also alts- not that alts are even wrong in this situation.

Precisely so. The only homins that accompany me on a digging expedition are other players who seek to gain experience quickly. (Widget refuses to assist in my digging; she says I'm too dangerous to be around when I am holding a sharp object.) Why should both of us be penalized just because that other player is F2P and some other players use F2P alts as careplanners?

But maybe some people feel that having subbed players decline to help newcomers with what is arguably the hardest skill tree to start will entice them to subscribe. Personally, I feel that it would lead to newcomers rage-quitting, but that's my opinion. It's also my opinion that the way any one player thinks Ryzom "should" be played is not the only valid option, though I suspect that some are too egotistical to ever admit that truth.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Gidget (7 years ago)

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#59 Report | Quote[fr] 

It's bad to roll back to an important decision like this... with real explanation. It's sending the message that you don't think about the changes you do, and turn the situation back as it was.
It looks like when someone is speaking loudly, you listen to him and roll back without thinking.

Because there is easiest solution to limit Gameplay for alts (I mean alts connected at the same time than the main and helping him) without hurting real freemium account.

But anyway CP alts are not much an issue compare to the fellow healing alts on OPs.

But I'm really not happy on the team decision, once more, it's also sending the message of that the ryzom team doesn't trust on their will.

Last edited by Sinvaders (7 years ago)

#60 Report | Quote[fr] 

Bonjour, je prends connaissance des derniers rebondissements du F2P. En effet, le bug de qualité extrait est problématique.
Mais il en demeure pas moins que si un F2P peux extraire de la qualité supérieur a 150 ca reste un gros problème.

Car les alt en plus de pourrir le jeux et la sociabilité, ne feront plus rentrer l'argent dans les caisses de Ryzom.

Juste, j'aimerai que ceux qui régissent le Ryzom, arrête de faire un pas en avant deux pas en arrière. Car le seul intérêt, de se patch était de permettre a d'ancien joueurs de venir faire coucou sur atys et de voir les évolutions du jeux.

J'ai arrêter de jouer pendant 8 ans. Evolution constater sur Ryzom.
_Fusion des serveurs, qui a fait partiellement disparaître le RP.
_Pseudo faction Maraudeur, qui a mis a mal le système de fame des tributs. Et de plus n'apporte rien au gameplay du jeux pour la plupart des joueurs. Le PvP était possible avant l'arrivé de cette faction.
_Les New Horizons, seul évolution notablement intéressante en termes de transport. Mais qui malheureusement c'est précéder visiblement d'une modification en termes de rentabilité des crafts.

Donc pour finir s'il doit avoir un retour en arrière, il doit être total. Et pour les anciens joueurs, désolé mais si vous voulez revenir a moindre frais sur Ryzom, vous créez un compte free Comme je l'ai fait pendant les les huit ans d'abscence que j'ai eu.

Je comprends tous à fait, qu'Ulukyn ne puisse pas faire de miracle.
Il aurait fallut qu'un retour en F2P s'accompagne d'une limitation des compétences ainsi que des caractéristiques de lvl 125. Mais ca lui est impossible.

Donc en dehors des bug mare que les râleurs est toujours gain de cause.
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