Bazaar

#31 Added by Rook 8 years ago  

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Sorry everyone, but this is seriously going off tracks. If you have things to tell each other, please use a /tell. That's better for everyone.

Thanks.

#32 Added by Tiximei 8 years ago  

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We will sanction players using the mark-up exploit when selling items at the merchants and feel free to ticket cases you come across. I trust you to get the discussion back on track in an orderly fashion and without mud slinging. Have a nice and dirt free Atysmas!

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Tiximei
Senior Game Master
Ryzom Support Team

#33 Added by Nehrie 8 years ago  

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Guess I'm a little slow.

Is there a bug that let's you charge more than 9999% for an item. Is that what a ticket will be wrote for?

Or are people going to be punished for buying any item and then reselling it?

Ex: I buy helmet for 100 dappers and resell for 200 dappers.

Would I be punished for that?

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The Clan

#34 Added by Placio 8 years ago  

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Honestly, 20,000% markup doesn't seem that unethical at all. My sup HQ q250 amp with 96/97 in ele stats will only sell for about 170,000 dappers at 9999%. Most HQ q250 97%-ish+ amps should have a fair dapper value over 700,000 (about 41,000% markup)... Although the factor that limits the value of the resale most seems to be the low base prices calculated by the merchants.

#35 Added by Fateciy 8 years ago  

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Lacuna, I feel for you. to have someone capitalize on your work is bad enough, but to take advantage of both your crafting skills and an expliot is terrable.

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Fateciy
Gaurdian of the Kingdom
Guild Leader of Spears of Eora

#36 Added by Nehrie 8 years ago  

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Is it against the rules to buy an item then to resell it?

It sounds like a good way to make money to me. The crafter gets the price they asked for and the middle man makes some money.

Why is that bad?

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The Clan

#37 Added by Placio 8 years ago  

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The crafter puts items in resale to be sold to other players, the obvious intent is that the purchaser will use or gift the item to a player that will use it. So the items have already been priced at what the crafter deems a fair price. Purchasing and then reselling others crafts at a higher markup can price these items out of reach for the intended consumer, which may violate the second rule regarding in-game courtesy- "You may not hinder another player during his play." I don't claim that this is the view held by any WG official, and I've never heard of a ban from reselling others crafts. Although I have heard if toon consistently does this on Silan they will be spoken to, I assume since it is a much smaller market.

So I would say it is wrong because it manipulates the market prices at the expense of the intended consumers.

Last edited by Placio (8 years ago)

#38 Added by Mjollren 8 years ago  

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Guys (and gals), you are discussing scalping. Please don't rehash a decade-old debate.

Some see its advantages (market arbitration), some see its disadvantages, there's hardly any chance to change each other's minds. If the game company wants to forbid the practice, it's fairly easy to do it.

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#39 Added by Placio 8 years ago  

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I thought that link was to a forum post where this was discussed MJ but it was not, so I don't see why I shouldn't answer a question someone asked.

Since I'm writing anyway, scalping is also unethical since you have not added any value to the item, therefore there is no justification for you to receive any profit.

#40 Added by Tiximei 8 years ago  

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Talkirc

ok, here's the thing that's at the root of why lac's upset.

she crafts a nice item, sells it for say 5000% (just a number)
the limit is 9999% (without exploit)
this person is reselling her stuff with exploited price of 20000%

if your a new player with no idea about stats, that new player might think because of the high price many things:
that's a normal "high" price
it's the most expensive so that's got to be the very best

the player selling it is taking advantage of younger unknowing players. (remember your dedicated to helping new players, so this fact should really piss you off at the person doing the reselling, not lashing out at an upset crafter.)

there's so many sides here, but the root is that someone's using an exploit to take advantage of players with less understanding of ryzom's workings. if the person was selling them at the unexploited limit, then i would support your argument that lac got what she asked for and the other guy is just trying to turn a profit. (i don't practice things like that, seems like praying on the less knowing players of the game).

talk

This is the exploit in question and it cannot be done using normal ingame game mechanics. A different discussion all together is what should the initial price with 0% markup be.  

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Tiximei
Senior Game Master
Ryzom Support Team

#41 Added by Nehrie 8 years ago  

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Thank you I understand now that the exploit is something that is not ingame.

I couldn't mistakenly put too higher price on an object and then be banned from the game.

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The Clan

#42 Added by Binarabi 8 years ago  

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when I put stuf fon market I expect it to be used by the homins who buy it - of they buy and resell at a profit I dislike it - being as I dislike the thing in rl as well - exploiting buyers is a bit a a swine imo, but buying and selling at profit which is forbidden by copy/pasting 20,000% is bannable, so long as they get banned I am happy enough

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#43 Added by Placio 8 years ago  

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I was talking only about the ethics of reselling because I was under the impression that we cannot disclose bugs/exploits to other players. But now that the cat is out of the bag, I have replicated the 'exploit' using normal in-game text up to 99,999%. If WG thinks this is a bug please ask Kervala/Cedric to fix it, otherwise it seems to be an unknown feature. I have already been told by CSRs that just because something is not know to all the players does not make it a bug. If the price is not justified, the seller will lose all their investment. So if anything, I would suggest that the Merchant interface is bugged when it only allows a 4 digit long markup when the game actually accepts a 5 digit markup... Now if we could only sell used items and pay extra to keep them on the shelves for more than a week, I might actually used the resale tab for excellent and sup crafts!

Edited 7 times | Last edited by Placio (8 years ago)

#44 Added by Kovabon 8 years ago  

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OK, while I agree with people being made to feel guilty for selling things at a markup, MOSTLY. However, here is what I have done in the past, and I will defend my past actions in this matter.

Once upon a time, I was not in a guild. And I HATE it when I armor is not all the same color... it looks tacky.

So, I started collecting armor until I had a complete set of the same color. However, when I needed to make space in my packers and in my apartment, I was sell the partial sets of armor I had accumulated, at MY markup. Hell, I had been holding this partial armor for several weeks or months, and I needed to make space in my inventory (packers and apartment).

So, don't you DARE try to make feel guilty for my tactics, as I am pretty well immune to feeling guilt!

Also, I have done this in weapons. When I see a better weapon that is better than my existing weapon, I would buy the new weapon, and either save the old one or sell it.

So, in my case, I feel justified in what I have done, and still do.

NYAH NYAH NYAH!!!!

Anyway... have a good game, all

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I need me a new tag line on my messages!

#45 Added by Placio 8 years ago  

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Kovabon, maybe you have a guilty conscience? Becuase no one mentioned you, at all :)

Also if you sell your weapon because you found a better one, then most of the time you could not resell it since it would have been damaged.