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#1 [en] 

This is a school quest for harvesters. Why is is set in the middle of the Javings Forest? I killed the 10 Javings pretty easily, and completed a number of fighting missions before that, but I can't fight when I'm prospecting, and I can't fight 4 or 6 at a time as they swarm. And the quest is only half-way through the Harvester intro. That's absurd.
This is why I quit the first time. I want to craft.I cannot fight while I harvest.I don't have a group of friends. There was no one available when I asked, probably because the server population is low.
So, I can complete quest chains I DON'T care much about, but can't get halfway though the one that drew me to the game in the first place. Why can't crafters just craft? Why do they have to be fighters? Are they OP? I'm content to buy my materials from fighters, or stores. I'm happy even if I don't have the best stuff around. I'm NOT content to not be able to make it through the crafting tutorial. Why would I ever pay?

#2 [en] 

You can ignore the tutorial completely if it does not fit into you style of game play. It should be pretty safe runnign all the way to the jungle of silan, and the diggers there can show you the same spots to dig.

I think many just do the fighting option for that mission, but if you cannot/do not want to do it that way, just ignore the mission for now :)

#3 [en] 

p.s. the real game is nothing like that silly tutorial island :)

#4 [en] 

You can also do a little prospecting over near the hill with the yelks on it and find all the mats you need for that mission.  In addition, if you are patient the natural movement of the javings will take them away from the digging area for some time. (Just keep an eye out for when they start back.)

The mission is intended to encourage diggers to team with fighters, which is fine as long as there are a number of people in the beginner area.  When there are not, it is frustrating.  However, as Placio has noted, the tutorial is not really needed if you have too much trouble with it.

I also recommend asking for help in Universe if asking in Region doesn't help.  There are a fair number of people who will log across into a Silan toon to give you a bit of help.

And no, the mainland is nothing like Silan.

I hope you stick around and come enjoy the rest of the game.

-- Bittty

---


Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#5 [en] 

Why would I ignore the tutorial for the part of the game I like? And I cannot just skip over one quest. I tried.

If there are alternate places to do it, why does the quest send newbies to the most dangerous place? That's a retarded design. Especially since solo killing the 10 for the Fight quest is trivial. I don't think I dropped below half while killing all 10.

And absent hints from the game, how long would an average new player wait to see if the whole flock critters moves away? That doesn't happen in any other game. In fact, the entire flock came back to aggro on me after I died the first time and returned.

How is the main game different for crafters? I have never understood games (and there are many) where the introductory play is nothing like the regular play. I'm looking to replace two of those now. I was hoping this would be the replacement.

I appreciate the help Bitty, but it seems to me to be yet another fighting game with a tacked-on crafting system, albeit one of the better systems I've seen.

#6 [en] 

Oihhi --

  I would disagree strongly with your last statement, speaking as a harvester and crafter.  I find the balance of crafting and killing to be, if anything, slightly biased in favor of crafting.  It's hard to kill if you don't have armor and weapons, and the mobs don't drop any.  (HINT: Do not buy the $%^&*( that the NPC Vendors are selling.  Go to the Resale tab or talk to someone to get gear.)  :)  (Oh, yes, the key to riches from rewarding missions is crafting.)


  I would say that if you stay well back and don't excite them, that they will move off about every 5 minutes out of a 10 min. cycle.  I haven't timed it carefully, but I have certainly seen it.

 As I explained in my previous post, the instructions are meant to push you into team work.  In the main game, harvesting tends to be easier in terms of aggro at least at the low levels, and even at high levels there are safe places to harvest most choice and exe materials.  Supreme mats are another kettle of kirostas...

  The intro play on the island is not all that different from the mainland play except for the fact that it is largely mission driven and on the mainland there is less of a driving force from the missions.  There are missions, but you don't need them to advance.  As I run through Silan periodically, I have found more and more that the lessons taught there are relevant to the mainland, but that they are more subtle than they appear.

  If you read all the material presented it does give you a pretty good intro to the game mechanics.

Last edited by Bitttymacod (3 years ago)

---


Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#7 [en] 

I did this one on Silan.. The mission is to find a safe spot to prospect and dig.. if you don't find safe spot then make your safe spot and dig quickly.

And I did it 3 times with 3 of my toons in all different spots. Maybe safest way is to get the ranger's armor and icy touch amps before this mission.

Consider this mission to be related to the very first of our mission i.e. hide from creatures sight.. you did that, right? Most of the diggers and crafter here are not very special in fight (especially in PvP) but because they love dig/craft they become masters in fight/mafic before anything.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Fishgod (3 years ago)

#8 [en] 

I think these Javings group attack is similar to Kitin Patrol in Prime Roots here in main land.. slowly we all learnt how to dig while not being noticed! Silan has some tough challange indeed.. and believe me you will not regret completing this harvest mission :D

#9 [en] 

Whether one likes it or not, I found that mission a challenge for harvesters, and not a bad one.

You have 2 possibilities: Either follow the help (compass) and experience an agro ridden spot. The solutions you find may be helpful for your further digging career on Atys.

Or search for possibilities to mitigate the problem. There are at least 4 spots on Silan where you can harvest the material in the quality required, from q20 up to q45. Most if not all of these spots are non agro. A digger is always thought to be an explorer, so doing bit research does not harm. Or accept the help already given, telling you an alternate location in quality 20.

The easiest "regular" way, digging the materials in Javing Forest, would be asking for help. Even if you do not have close friends, a request in region chat nearly always unearthes a number of helpers. In cases of emergency you may even ask in Universum chat, as not few Mainland players still have a Silan character they may log on. But best spare that for the really hard missions at the end of the mission chain.

The tactics for helpers may be killing most Javings in the swarm, then "walking" the rest. Javings are slow and cannot catch up with a running homin they are pursueing. You may then freely dig your stuff.

Is it possible to dig the mitexi bark (iirc) in Javing Forest solo? Yes, it is. It is bit tricky, but teaches you alot about Atys mechanics.
First, kill all Javings of the swarm except one. Let the last one pass toward its turning point northwest of you (iirc), then pop the mat and stay back and let the Javing pass, then dig. Note that the Javing has a ways shorter attack range when showing its tail than when showing its beak.

The time should suffice to dig all or at least most of a spot. When the Javing comes back, and you have at least 1 or 2 mats dug, run away. When the Javing has lost you, go back, let the Javing pass, dig the next spot. This sounds clumsy, but many agro spots can only be harvested this or similar ways (especially in 250 Prime Roots).

As we use to say: there is more than one way to skin a yubo. But all successful ways are worth to be tried.

Last edited by Daomei (3 years ago)

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#10 [en] 

That is my point exactly.

How is the new player supposed to figure out all those subtleties from the brief blurb in the TUTORIAL? I was later given a personal tutorial on sneaking which helped immensely. But I do not need to do 9 dangerous collecting missions to know it's dangerous. One, maybe two, with actual suggestions for success from the tutorial, would be more than sufficient.

I didn't say the game mechanics are bad, or at least didn't mean to say that. I'm still here. I said the tutorial is so bad it could turn off potential players. It made me quit for several years. Unlike me, most players who get turned off by a game don't try again later. Like the Zun Amber quest which had a 2% drop rate for me. Really? 40 or so tries to learn how to prospect one item? With no idea whether I am doing it incorrectly, or have just displeased the RNGods somehow? That is not effective teaching. Make the tutorial a 20% or 30% drop rate, giving a success, and have the lesson say "sometimes you may have to try 50 or 100 times".

There were no players available when I asked in Regional chat. I *never* consider asking newbie questions in world chat in any game I play. I consider that to be spamming. The tutorial should teach what is needed, and not depend on other online players to save it. Fortunately, there is now a good tutorial online. :-)

#11 [en] 

Yeah, i think one important thing is to change the Universe Warning to something like "If you are blocked in the Tutorials or need help other ways, don't be shy to ask here".
At the moment it's much too scary :)

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#12 [en] 

you'll be rich and powerful on the ML, crafting is the road to riches and very useful, note it's a very long path in the end. (it's worth it if you like digging and crafting)

ask in uni chat, you'll get the help you need, or try the spots noted for finding a safe spot to dig what you need.

you learn much about the how to in silan, once that's done (the missions there) head to the ML, you'll find players that will help you. (and some of us can come to silan and help too)

don't give up unless you don't like to put in work for reward, ryzom will not spoon feed anyone like most games do, here you must put in effort to get rewards.

just my 2 dappers.
talk

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
all in one IRC link for web based IRC chat --- cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents

#13 [en] 

Oihhl
That is my point exactly.

How is the new player supposed to figure out all those subtleties from the brief blurb in the TUTORIAL? I was later given a personal tutorial on sneaking which helped immensely. But I do not need to do 9 dangerous collecting missions to know it's dangerous. One, maybe two, with actual suggestions for success from the tutorial, would be more than sufficient.

I didn't say the game mechanics are bad, or at least didn't mean to say that. I'm still here. I said the tutorial is so bad it could turn off potential players. It made me quit for several years. Unlike me, most players who get turned off by a game don't try again later. Like the Zun Amber quest which had a 2% drop rate for me. Really? 40 or so tries to learn how to prospect one item? With no idea whether I am doing it incorrectly, or have just displeased the RNGods somehow? That is not effective teaching. Make the tutorial a 20% or 30% drop rate, giving a success, and have the lesson say "sometimes you may have to try 50 or 100 times".

There were no players available when I asked in Regional chat. I *never* consider asking newbie questions in world chat in any game I play. I consider that to be spamming. The tutorial should teach what is needed, and not depend on other online players to save it. Fortunately, there is now a good tutorial online. :-)

It depends, I guess, on what you expect a tutorial to do.  I'm not defending any particular section of the tutuorials, but one of the lessons to be learned is that sometimes things are hard.  I do think that some of the tutorial missions could be better worded, but evidence suggests that many (most?) players don't read any of the words, so I'm not sure what more would do.  (I wish that were a joke...)

As for the tutorial missions for digging and crafting, only two are what I would call dangerous.

As for subtleties, well the combat one emphasized observing.  I guess I may be more into the "don't get killed" end of the spectrum, but I never expect things to be safe in a game unless I've been told they're safe.

Asking questions in Uni is not regarded as spam in Ryzom unless you are actually spamming (i.e. repeating identical or similar questions or trolling).  Uni is a "help channel".

---


Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#14 [en] 

Having re-read your posts Oihhl I think you make some valid points.  New players at present are required to ask for help from other players or stumble around getting frustrated.  I know I did.  

It is not just a steep learning curve, and very different from what you might expect from other games.  Some of the missions are impossible without help from other players.  

Since this is a tutorial maybe there should be more help for new players as you say - who knows how many potential Ryzombies are put off by Silan.

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It's bad luck to be superstitious . . .



Palta e decata, nan nec ilne matala.

When one goes on a journey it is not the scenery that changes, but the traveller

#15 [en] 

i think a big help here would be for the dev's to change the harsh warning on the uni channel. a warning is ok, but it should be stressed that uni is the proper place to ask for ANY help regardless of location on atys, that way a player will take the chance.

the hardest thing for someone not used to ryzom and our community is for them to take the chance and ask. most game communities are not 1/4 as friendly and helpful as ours, so odds are most expect the same poor community and don't ask.

oihhl i hope you don't give up, and i hope that you see there are players willing to help you, our community is pretty friendly, and often asking nicely is all it takes to get help.

talk

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
all in one IRC link for web based IRC chat --- cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents
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