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#1 Report | Quote[en] 

this is a discussion that i started on the kami forums, but that's only a small portion of the server, i want everyone to have the chance to read and consider my words.
Talkirc (atys)
to start with:
this does not apply to all members of the kami faction.

some of us, myself included, have been kami for years, or in my case, for the entire time they have played ryzom.

there are players that have NOT been kami for years, but just recently became kami do not have all the information to pass judgement upon life long kami such as myself. because they are new they have no idea what things have previously been discussed, agreed apon, and settled related to our faction.
this lack of proper information, as well as study of the various forums, where some information related to things of this nature can be found, eg. kami alliance contact list, they act out without knowing the current state of things.

this is all in relation to direct stalking and harassment of me because of my guild seal. this is what transpired:
a new player to ryzom requested a trek from jungle to the lakes, being the helpful homin i am i offered to assist a fellow kami (bones) with the trek. the route takes us through a forced pvp zone. along the way we long time players are trying to teach the new homin things about PR and the ways of the game, answering questions and such as needed. at a point where there is much aggro suddenly a "fellow" kami aggro drag's on the party. they claim it was an accident, and make an empty apology to everyone except me, saying that they intended to kill me. they did also DIRECTLY attack me with both melee and magic attacks, at first they said it was an "accident" then changed that and said they intended to. (perhaps that was related to the accident of killing the rest of the team and intentional killing of me.) i freely admit that due to these repeated actions i lost my temper and verbally attacked the homin(s) in question, as a result of feeling directly betrayed by members of my own faction.

as a result of this i am going to take the same action that other respected and well known kami have, and stop playing completely (nuno, devoted kami and guild leader/high officer of "monks of atys"). other losses the kami have suffered are members like bambamseven, luminatrix, the bulk of the guild "asylum" and many others i can't recall. ryzom's biggest thing was the community and how friendly we once were, but now on this new server that seams to be a thing of the past.

we all came from different servers, and were all used to different play styles, we were forced together, and while it's been hard for some of us to adjust to this new server since then, some of us have tried, others refuse to. this lack of willingness to change is leading the kami and the entire server down a sad and dark path, which can only lead to one place, the end of ryzom.

we are too few on the server for this type of things to keep going on, it's time to consider that our actions on the server and how we treat others can impact the game in ways that will be bad for everyone that loves atys. what happened to me on that trek (as well as the others in the team) is not going to give new players the desire to keep playing, and is even less likely to promote them to want to pay for this. they can go find this kind of environment in games like WoW, ryzom will not be the hidden jewel of the MMO world unless we can return to the friendly and respectful atys of days past. how long can ryzom continue to survive if we keep loosing players? how long until the cost of keeping up the server and making some sort of profit before WG pulls the plug?

had the guild that attacked me and the treking team i was with been kami longer, they would have know that the issue of arugula's OP stance was discussed and agreed to be alright with the alliance previously. it should also be noted that while We are One is still kami, it was created as such by arugula her self. she was the one that instilled our members with a love and desire to support the kami. i will not ask the creator of a guild to leave it, nor will i abandon the years of work that I also put into the guild simply because ONE player want's to have a true challenge. i have been trying to convince her to return to the path of the enlightened kami, even if my attempts are invain i feel that i'm being the best kami i can be by giving my full effort to convert her, can you say the same when you kill a fellow kami and a devoted one at that?

the final point: attacking player A because of actions of player B simply because they have the same guild seal is not the proper course of action if you are not in possession of the full facts. until the dev's apply a patch that kicks marauder's out of faction aligned guilds it's not against the rules to have them, and when it does happen i see at least 5 subscriptions that will no longer be supporting ryzom with their money. (suboxide, and his 2 alt's, marceline [possibly], fitis, and it should be noted that both suboxide and fitis helped to create the marauders into what they are today)

so let's continue on the path we're on now, and see where ryzom is this time next year. half the server is sub'ed alt's, imagine what happens each time someone like that stop's playing, it's not one sub ryzom looses, it's 2 or more.

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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#2 Report | Quote[en] 

Talkirc i am soo sorry to hear of this :((

Why must people act this way ... ..

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Songbird, Coral Reef Explorer and Moon Gazer

#3 Report | Quote[en] 

Talkirc --

I understand what you are saying here, but it is not a discussion. A discussion happens when there are two sides talking and we have yet to hear from the other side.

All I see here is your claim (which I believe) that some other kami drew aggro on you in PR and blamed it on the fact that you are part of a Kami guild with which he does not agree. Given that the PvP sections of PR are Guild-vs-Guild, that was within his/her rights. In fact they didn't have to justify it at all. That they attempted to "justify" it on a flimsy basis, however, potentially takes it out of standard PvP and into "personal harrassment". However, until we, the other players who do not have access to Kami forums hear from the other person involved there is not a discussion. It is a speech, or possibly a polemic, and quite possibly effective, but please don't call it a discussion.

The question of whether or not "newbie trek immunity" exists or should exist is an interesting one and really beside the point. As for the new player, it may have been traumatic or it may have been "meh". It may have turned him/her off of Ryzom or it may simply have set them against the Kami. Again, we can't know if they don't speak.

I look forward to this *becoming* a discussion. Where is the person who attacked you? Step forward and say your piece and let the community judge.

-- Bittty

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#4 Report | Quote[en] 

bittty i'll be happy to add quotes for the response of the others, as i have posted this exactly the same in both locations.

as yet the parties involved have not had the desire to admit or comment, and i did not name them just to test the integrity of them. as you can see as you read, i clearly admited that i lost my temper and responded with less then proper means, i can admit my wrong doing openly, now i simply await to see if they do the same. thus far there is only one comment on the kami forums, and if the author of the post does not mind (checking with that player as soon as i post this reply.) i will post a quote of the only reply thus far in the kami forums here (if the author is alright with that). as this is a "kami" issue that could potentially affect the whole server i intend to be as open as possible. i do not expect any of the involved parties to be willing to admit what they did, as it's not likely to look good on them.

talkirc

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
all in one IRC link for web based IRC chat --- cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents

#5 Report | Quote[en] 

i have been given permission by the author of the following quote to post it here for all of the server to see:

Zatarga (atys)
Talk, I completely agree with you 100%. This garbage never happened on the old server and and it seems that my point has been made when I told everyone back in November/December that every Q250 OP will be lost on Kara lands and to enjoy them while you can. The sad reality is that the faction refuses to listen to individuals who are smarter than they are, who understand how things really do work, how to maintain a balance and how to treat people… You may not like me and frankly i do not give a D#$M but you cannot deny the fact that I was right and maybe you should have listened to me when I spoke… Now, you want to keep the faction from completely splitting into 2 parties, maybe you will listen because as it stands, there is no leadership, there is no cooperation and there is certainly no way on gods green atys that the faction will survive if it continues down this path…

as you can see, there are a few homins that are willing to speak up and have what they have to say seen by all. do not fear to voice your thoughts, if you do the parties that are less then honorable will win by forcing you to be silent. rise up, speak out, let the world of atys hear you.

talkirc

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
all in one IRC link for web based IRC chat --- cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents

#6 Report | Quote[en] 

Sad to see but doesn't surprise me to be honest.

---


________________________

High Officer of Shuriiken
________________________


Facebook
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A glimpse into Virg's life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#7 Report | Quote[en] 

I agree with Bitty about PR being GvG but not all players see it that way. I have had multiple bad experiences with hardcore RPers from all factions, however, the Kami ones seem to be the most aggressive. Mind you, there are many good Kami people as well, but there are many bad.

I tried to argue at first, tried to make the people change but it only earned me more hate and enemies. Therefore, I went Kara and now I can at least defend myself without the alliance pointing fingers at me and calling me a traitor. But I can imagine people not changing factions, but quitting because of this.

There are indeed very few players and this hateful behaviour puts off many newbies as well as many long-time players who just get sick of it after some time.

All in all, if you do hardcore RP, good for you, enjoy. But try not to enforce it on others.

To simplyfy: Learn some freakin´ tolerance, people!

---

Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

“People like to invent monsters and monstrosities. Then they seem less monstrous themselves. When they get blind-drunk, cheat, steal, beat their wives, starve an old woman, when they kill a trapped fox with an axe or riddle the last existing unicorn with arrows, they like to think that the Bane entering cottages at daybreak is more monstrous than they are. They feel better then. They find it easier to live.” -Geralt of Rivia

#8 Report | Quote[en] 

My opinion is to remove forced PvP out of the game, there are many area's in ryzom that is just been build to not play on.

#9 Report | Quote[en] 

Talkirc (atys)
i have been given permission by the author of the following quote to post it here for all of the server to see:

Zatarga (atys)
Talk, I completely agree with you 100%. This garbage never happened on the old server and and it seems that my point has been made when I told everyone back in November/December that every Q250 OP will be lost on Kara lands and to enjoy them while you can. The sad reality is that the faction refuses to listen to individuals who are smarter than they are, who understand how things really do work, how to maintain a balance and how to treat people… You may not like me and frankly i do not give a D#$M but you cannot deny the fact that I was right and maybe you should have listened to me when I spoke… Now, you want to keep the faction from completely splitting into 2 parties, maybe you will listen because as it stands, there is no leadership, there is no cooperation and there is certainly no way on gods green atys that the faction will survive if it continues down this path…

as you can see, there are a few homins that are willing to speak up and have what they have to say seen by all. do not fear to voice your thoughts, if you do the parties that are less then honorable will win by forcing you to be silent. rise up, speak out, let the world of atys hear you.

talkirc

Can't zatarga post by himself on the forum ? If he wants to speak up, he shouldn't have trouble about that :|

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#10 Report | Quote[en] 

As I have posted in other forums, I am over this. Not mad. All forgiven. Accidents do happen, communication fails sometimes. We just have to sort out our issues a little bit calmer sometimes and then we move on.
I see PR as GvG as well but if I don't have an issue with someone in my own faction I won't attack them. In fact, back in the day we used to kill each other in PR regardless of faction. I thought it was fun. I have adjusted to the new ways as that is what the majority want.
We're still awesome, we just need to remember to have fun.
I have no dappers left, please contribute to the fund :D
Bones

#11 Report | Quote[en] 

I was Kami for years, right up until the server merge in fact. Then I chose a different path, mainly because the statement that "this garbage never happened on the old server" isn't accurate.

It's because the Kami Alliance has been extreme for years that I decided to remain faction neutral this time. This type of behaviour isn't new, harassing fellow Kamis because they don't act the way you want isn't new*. Claiming that the server merge is to blame for this is misleading for the newer generation of your faction; if you've been a Kami for years and not been on the receiving end then you've been lucky so far.

I'm sorry to hear that this type of experience has tainted any of the involved players feelings for the game and hope you can overcome that bad feeling and remember the good things.




* I can give an example but would rather not open a wound long since healed.

---

Elder Of Atys

Chasing the DING!
katriell
You can't "complete" the mainland. If one thinks one has seen or done everything there, one is kidding oneself. But be prepared to "get out what you put in," because the mainland does not coddle or hold hands.
Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.

#12 Report | Quote[en] 

i would never ask you to re-open a wound neela, and i was lucky in the past. sometimes i long for the old days of silan only play, where i never had to worry about anything like this. i'm also considering bones statement that what's done is done, and will only hope that actions like this don't happen again.

it's my hope that this post will give others something to think about. ryzom can not survive if we loose too many players, there must be compromise.

there have been more post's on the kami forums thread, but i'm not going to quote them because i don't have the permission of the posters.

icus: zata gave me permission to post his kami forum post, and thus i did so, it was because he wasn't in the mood to post the same thing twice, regardless of that, why are you policing the thread?

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Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
What Cookies is about ---- Contact Cookies ---- Cookies at Events ---- For Cookies Diggers and Crafters
Useful Links:
all in one IRC link for web based IRC chat --- cookies approved referance data, guides, and more. --- ryztools web version --- talkIRC forum post table of contents

#13 Report | Quote[en] 

Talkirc (atys)
it's my hope that this post will give others something to think about. ryzom can not survive if we loose too many players, there must be compromise.

Can't argue with that. :o)

Must admit when I had my experience, I considered quitting for a while but then decided they'd won if I did. I just kept out of the Kami Alliance but stayed Kami aligned. When faction was reset during the merge, I decided not faction up this time; even came up with a RP based reason not to.

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Elder Of Atys

Chasing the DING!
katriell
You can't "complete" the mainland. If one thinks one has seen or done everything there, one is kidding oneself. But be prepared to "get out what you put in," because the mainland does not coddle or hold hands.
Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.

#14 Report | Quote[en] 

Homeless (atys)
My opinion is to remove forced PvP out of the game, there are many area's in ryzom that is just been build to not play on.

There is no such thing as forced PVP. It doesn't exist.

---


________________________

High Officer of Shuriiken
________________________


Facebook
Shuriiken's Page
A glimpse into Virg's life

I belong to the warrior in whom the old ways have joined the new
NB: Void respawn is where you can find the PVP, also willing to give lessons :)

#15 Report | Quote[en] 

Virg (atys)
Homeless (atys)
My opinion is to remove forced PvP out of the game, there are many area's in ryzom that is just been build to not play on.

There is no such thing as forced PVP. It doesn't exist.

If you go into certain areas of PR, you are tagged for PvP by the game. That is forced PvP in my book and I don't accept the argument I know comes next which is "don't go there then". :o)

---

Elder Of Atys

Chasing the DING!
katriell
You can't "complete" the mainland. If one thinks one has seen or done everything there, one is kidding oneself. But be prepared to "get out what you put in," because the mainland does not coddle or hold hands.
Remickla (atys)
Other games - they give you a cookie whether you succeed or not, in fact you don't even have to participate. Ryzom takes your cookie, eats it in front of you, and slaps you 2 or 3 times for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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