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#19 Added by Bitttymacod 10 years ago Report | Quote Multilingual

Multilingual | Français

{translate}

[FR] Bina, il s'agit d'un message écrit en français seulement (via Goo-trad). Pour ce message que j'ai marqué avec le code FR et coché la case multilingue.

Edited 4 times | Last edited by Bitttymacod (10 years ago)

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#20 Added by Kimory 9 years ago Report | Quote Multilingual

Multilingual | Français | [English] | Deutsch

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Hi,

I find this idea very interesting in theory.

But in practice I have a hard time figuring out what the discussions will look like. I fear they won't be easy to follow.

For instance:

- someone posts in French / English / German.
- a second one answers in English.
- a third one wants to answer to the second one in French / English. But is it useful? Those who speak English will understand the message in English. Those who don't won't understand the previous message anyway, so the answer alone wouldn't make much sense.
- a fourth one answers in German to the first one, ignoring the 2 previous posts…
- and so on.

In short it may be a mess... :/ (not to mention those who will have ignored some languages in their preferences and who therefore will see an incomplete discussion).

Have you thought about that?

Someone suggested to put his own text through Google Translate and then post himself the result: please don't do that ! :p
A literal translation often results in ugly and not very understandable sentences, and may even change the meaning sometimes.

Funny example: the sentence "a German or Spanish speaker will see the English version" has been translated into "un haut-parleur allemand ou espagnol verrez la version anglaise" (which means "a german or spanish loudspeaker will see the English version" -with a grammatical error in addition).

Of course I agree that Google Translate can help out, and it is fine to let the opportunity to the readers to use the widget themselves if they wish.

Edited 7 times | Last edited by Kimory (9 years ago)

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#21 Added by Bitttymacod 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Kimory --

My understanding of the reasoning behind this is to make it so that posts are all in one place (especially role-play posts). That way if a big event is going on or politics is happening as usual all role-players will be looking in one place, and I (an anglophone) can see (poorly through Goo-trad) can see that the guild Les Larmes are working on the same mystery and in the same direction as Phaedrea's Tears (my guild), and that they are being undermined by the rhetoric of The Travelers in Black (fictional).

To take an actual example, back during the kitin mound crisis I was posting maps of the distribution of the white kitins and the location of the mounds. I was taking each post and giving it two marvelous homins who translated it into French and German and then posted it in the Aniro and Leanon RP Forums. However it was difficult for the players in those forums to see the responses in the English forums and for me to see the responses (if any) in the other two. I even had a problem finding the threads because the headers were different.

Will this be seamless and perfect? No a *bleep*ing chance.

Will it be better than the current system? In my opinion if it gets all the role-players playing together (even if they are on opposite sides) then it will be a success.

Thanks for pointing out that I had inadvertently come up with a classic example of Goo-trad corruption.

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#22 Added by Binarabi 9 years ago Report | Quote Multilingual

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Kimory (atys)

In short it may be a mess... :/ (not to mention those who will have ignored some languages in their preferences and who therefore will see an incomplete discussion).

I fear you may have missed the point - or the point as I see it - we are a multi-lingual community, each langauge group has very pertinant discussions to all homins - and we miss out on them when they are posted on another forum

Many time have I sat with reverso - and posted to each forum - particularly with kami forums regarding kami meetings and more recently with Tryker forums (making one German speaker feel sick!)

A multi-language forum where all postings can be read by all homins - even if the english is not perfect for me - or the French/German is not perfect for others - is far preferable than not hearing the stories and debates of Atyss

Not to mention the time it will save for those of us who want to include all language speakers

+1 to Bitty as well
ps - I still do not clearly understand if I have to click the multi - langauge button if I want this translatable into all languages - I have posted it as english and left the multilingual button unchecked ...

pps - just changed it to check the multilanguage box

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Binarabi (9 years ago)

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#23 Added by Kimory 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

Again, I think this idea is good, I just wanted to point out that it won't be simple in practice (everybody isn't going to magically understand each other...)

Thank you for your examples, I understand the problems you've encountered in the past, and how this solution can (partially or totally) resolve them.

Binarabi (atys)

if I want this translatable into all languages

You have to post the translations yourself, your posts can't be translated by others (if that's what you mean). But this possibility would be interesting!

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Kimory (9 years ago)

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#24 Added by Azarael 9 years ago Report | Quote [de]

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Kimory (atys)

Hallo,

Ich finde diese Idee theoretisch sehr interessant.

Aber praktisch fällt es mir schwer, mir vorzustellen, wie die Diskussionen aussehen werden. Ich befürchte, sie werden schwer zu verfolgen sein.

Zum Beispiel:
- jemand postet auf Französisch / Englisch / Deutsch.
- ein Zweiter antwortet auf Englisch.
- Ein Dritter möchte auf Französisch / Englisch der zweiten Person antworten. Ist es aber nützlich? Diejenige die Englisch können werden den Post auf Englisch verstehen, die anderen werden sowieso den vorherigen Post nicht verstanden haben, deswegen macht die Antwort allein nicht viel Sinn.
- ein Vierter antwortet dem Ersten auf Deutsch in völliger Unkenntnis der 2 vorherigen Posts...
- usw.

Kurz gesagt, es kann ein Durcheinander sein… :/ (ganz abgesehen von diejenigen die Sprachen ignorieren werden, und deshalb eine unvollständige Diskussion sehen werden).

Habt ihr daran gedacht?

Jemand hat vorgeschlagen, seinen eigenen Text in Google Übersetzer zu übersetzen und dann den erhaltenen Text direkt zu posten: mach das bitte nicht! :p
Eine wortwörtliche Übersetzung ergibt oft ,,hässliche“ und nicht sehr verständliche Sätze, und kann manchmal sogar den Sinn verändern.

Lustiges Beispiel: der Satz ,,a German or Spanish speaker will see the English version“ (= ein Deutschsprachiger oder ein Spanischsprecher wird die Englische Version sehen) wurde mit ,,un haut-parleur allemand ou espagnol verrez la version anglaise“ übersetzt (= ein deutscher oder spanischer Lautsprecher werdet die Englische Version sehen).

Ich bin natürlich einverstanden, dass Google Übersetzer helfen kann, und es ist gut, dass die Leser die Möglichkeit haben, es zu benutzen, wenn sie möchten.

(Entschuldigung falls es Fehler gibt, mein deutsch ist vielleicht etwas eingerostet).

Dein Deutsch ist sehr gut, deine Argumente auch.

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Azarael
Keepers of Darkness

#25 Added by Bitttymacod 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

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Bina, I looked at your post with my language set to French (by clicking on the flags up there on the top left of the main window), and it gave me the option to translate it with a link at the top right of the message. I suspect that any posting that is not in the "native" language of the reader will have that option in those threads that are marked "international" (the threads, not the messages).

Last edited by Bitttymacod (9 years ago)

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#26 Added by Kimory 9 years ago Report | Quote [en]

{translate}

I think this has nothing to do with the fact that the thread is marked as multilingual or not.

Maybe it will change, but for now I see the link "translate" whenever the language of the message is different from the language in my preferences, even if the thread isn't marked as multilingual.

Concerning the message itself, I would say that mark it as multilingual whereas it is monolingual is not the right way to do:

Tamarea (atys)

Posts which contain only single language have to be marked as such

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#27 Added by Marceline 9 years ago Report | Quote [fr]

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has this move, removed our options for easily editing the post?
no longer do i see a button to import an image or alter the size/colour of my text.

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#28 Added by Bonny 9 years ago Report | Quote [de]

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Hey
Das Goggle Trans nicht das Gelbe vom Ei ist, isst ja jedem bekannt...
Aber besser das als gar nichts, weil ich kann zwar etwas Englisch aber kein Wort Französisch oder Russich.
Daher finde ich es trotzdem einen gute und nützliche Funktion...
Und man kann ja eh meistens aus dem zusammenhang recht viel ableiten und ausbessern.
Das witzige und eigenartige Texte dabei zustande kommen ist vorprogrammiert, genau so das es zu verwirrung kommen kann.
Was solls ?`
Mich stört es weniger :)

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Mfg Bonny

#29 Added by Irfidel 9 years ago Report | Quote [de]

{translate}

Die Zusammenlegung macht es für Rollenspieler einfacher stories zu verfolgen, die von Leuten eines anderen Sprachraumes initiiert werden.
Threads müssen nicht dupliziert werden, wenn man will das anders sprachige das Thema mitbekommen sollen.
Die Google translate Stilblüten haben wir ja jetzt auch schon.
Für mich überwiegen die Vorteile. Und wenn es am Anfang noch etwas hakelig sein wird, werden wir uns als Community bestimmt recht schnell an das System gewöhnen.

Last edited by Tamarea (9 years ago)

#30 Added by Kimory 9 years ago Report | Quote [de]

{translate}

Was Google Translate betrifft:
ich bin total einverstanden, dass es nützlich für die Leser sein kann, und daher dass der ,,übersetzen“ Link praktisch ist.
Meine Bemerkung war nicht für diejenige bestimmt, die Google Translate benutzen, um die Posts zu verstehen, sondern nur für diejenige, die Posts schreiben, und beabsichtigten, Google Translate selbst zu benutzen, und ohne Verbesserungen zu machen, bevor sie in einer anderen Sprache posten.

Was Threads für Rollenspieler betrifft:
zur Info habe ich ungefähr die gleiche Antwort auf dem englischen Forum bekommen, und ich verstehe tatsächlich die Vorteile der Zusammenlegung in diesem Fall. :)

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#31 Added by Binarabi 9 years ago Report | Quote [fr]

{translate}

I still do not understand this :(
I thought that if I tick the box "multiligual" I can get the post to appear on each forum - but it looks like it does not ...

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#32 Added by Bitttymacod 9 years ago Report | Quote [fr]

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Marceline -- Not for me at any rate, the Edit link is right up where it usually is.

Bina -- No. It means that it will appear here with the option to be pre-translated and have native speakers see their own language.

The separate IRL language forums are scheduled to be merged, so there won't be "other forums".

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#33 Added by Mjollren 9 years ago Report | Quote [fr]

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Hmm, some topics are getting new IDs ?

I was just looking for the topic about Ryzomnomnom merging with the official lore site. A google search gives the old link page=topic/view/20175/, whereas the correct url is incremented by 1 ... page=topic/view/20176/.

This might hurt page ranks for a while, until Google figures out again where everything is :)

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