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#31 [fr] 

Kamia'ata,

I would like to propose another way to have a text taking everything into account.
I think the rule is written so that it can be teached and learned by anyone. In this purpose, it should be short enough not to make it a burden. On the other side, there is a need of details in order to prevent any kind of abuse or bypass, as honorary initiate Zhoi noticed.

Thus, what i suggest is a text in multiple parts : an introduction, a short main rule, and a detailed explanation as sub-articles, covering the many possibilities so far.

As a short notice, i'd like to point out the sacred texts from the Order of Ma-Duk, they may help finding the best phrasing about the Goo. In our case, i noticed a translation using "nothingness", that carry the same meaning, but could be replaced with the "Void", for both being accurate and shorter sentence.

Now, to answer your questions, Zhoi, when I speak about the Oath to fight the Goo, i was referring to the Oath made by our ancestors after the first meeting with a Kami. Yes, It is implied by our main values, but is something that every initiate should have in mind.
About the words of "court proceeding" and "punishment", i find this influenced by foreign customs, rather than a zorai way of dealing (OOC : i find this too much inspired by our modern western societies to fit with what I imagine for Zorai culture). On another hand, the Lai-le Ban tradition may not fit with such situations, as well as with the recent affair with a marauder. But this is another topic .

I will try to work on some changes on the text, mainly a matter of order of the sentences and presentation, to present here later.

Kami bini liu, lai-ho'i

Last edited by Feylin (1 decade ago)

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#32 [fr] 

Kamia'ata, here is my proposal.

Preamble :

The Theocracy reminds that the Goo is a manifestation of the Void, able to corrupt both bodies and mind, and threatening Atys itself. Therefore, according to the teachings of the Kamis and to its own values, the Theocracy declare the following rules.

Main article :

It is forbidden to use or attempt to use Goo in any way and for whatever purpose.
It is a duty to destroy or in the worst case limit the spread of Goo.

Explanatory articles :

This law applies to Goo under its many forms, as well as to any kind of object, item-parts, fillings or components and the like, that are mixed, filled or processed with Goo of any kind, especially weapons, ammunitions and drugs made using Goo, called afterwards Goo-contaminated items, or objects.

It is forbiden to produce, use, import, export, trade, transfer, advertise, offer, equip, consume such items.

The possession and transportation of such items is also forbidden except for the following cases.

Goo and Goo-contaminated items, if unable to be destroyed, have to be transported with extreme caution and delivered to the officials of the Cities of Amber who will kake care of their destruction.

Any sightings of Goo or Goo-contaminated objects in the Witherings shall also be reported to the officials of the amber cities as quickly as possible.

It is forbidden to contaminate a living being, especially in order to conceal a transportation of Goo.

Any counteracting against this law will be severely punished.


I added a sentence about contaminating a living being, as I noticed that everything we were talking about were objects only.
I removed the sentence about the fire, because I think that it is not the purpose of a law about Goo to say what to do, or not to do, with fire. Besides, I think that setting a natural fire is forbiden too, as it is damaging Atys.
I removed the sentence about research, because of two issues : first, a law cannot refer to a person. though I have best wishes for Tao Sian, peoples die, law must stay. Second : our Great Mask declared again the forbidance of experimentations on or with Goo. We rather wait for more explanations before including this aspect to the law.

I am sorry to have taken so much time before working on this. Still there are a few weeks (IG) before next Assembly.

I am waiting to read your opinion.

(OOC : Finally, i could but do nothing else than phrase this in a modern way, so much for our Zorai culture .... :p)

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Feylin (1 decade ago)

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#33 [en] 

I agree with your phrasing of the text.
There's one passage I am missing here though that I STRONGLY insist on have included:

"As Goo is a plague, Goo-contaminated items, item-parts, fillings, Goo-drugs and so on of any kind are not to be seen as "wares" nor "goods"."

We've debated over this for quite a while and I thought we had agreed to put this into the law...

I also think it is - imperative - necessary to make it absolutely clear that only authorized homins will be permitted to do research within the Witherings and that everyone else will be forbidden to do so. Otherwise homins acting against this law could just bluntly claim that they are "only" using Goo "for research"-purposes and this "cannot be forbidden" as long as it's not stated clearly in the law...

So we must close this loop hole before it can be abused!

True, a person's name should not be included in the law - still this law can be updated any time later on. So how about a simpler phrasing, like this:

Only scholars and scientists specifically authorized by the Theocracy are allowed to research the Goo within the Witherings with all caution and respect for nature.

I disagree with your interpretation of the words of the Great Mask about a prohibition of experimentations. Because after our Grand Sage said that "research" on the Goo is forbidden, Tao Sian said that such research had been done by specific officials scholars in the past and is still done in the present. There was no explicit differentiation made between "experiments" and "research" yet.

Please remember that no ban on researches of Goo has existed for some of our cities in the past - but the exact opposite. For two of three cities t has even been a TASK for the circles of the Theocracy to do research to find methods to heal the Goo in the past!

For Min-Cho it was said and STILL is written down in their rules: 11.2. The First Circle will study and seek a cure to the Goo, the disease afflicting Atys. http://app.ryzom.com/app_lore/index.php?page=/projects/puben/wiki /L_ZoraiGovOrg, and also for Hoi-Cho it STILL says: "11.2. Der zweite Kreis soll nach einem Heilmittel gegen das Goo forschen, die Krankheit, die Atys befallen hat." http://app.ryzom.com/app_lore/index.php?page=/projects/pubde/wiki /L_Die_Kreise_der_Zorai )

True: more clear words from our officials will be very helpful to phrase this passage of the law correctly.

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#34 [en] 

The passage about destroying Goo in my version of the law will also still have to be discussed with officials, so I agree with leaving that out for now.

I merely want to remind you, Awakened Fey-Lin Liang, that it was YOUR wish to include a clarification about "how to destroy Goo" (and how to handle it safely without being contaminated) into this law, so that's why I had added it in the first place.

We might have to talk about setting natural fires on Atys later on too I think, at least as soon as it becomes possible again to produce camp-fires. If this was forbidden, there cannot be any Zorai-alchemists in the future, which would be extremely retrenching.

Permanent camp-fires are also being set up in Zora though, which makes it pretty clear that fires like these must be alright to be used though...

The rules of old that were handed down to us say: "Respect of nature: Our culture is built on a deep respect for nature. You must guard against over-exploitation and fire, and at all costs fight against the goo which the Kamis are powerless to repel." http://app.ryzom.com/app_lore/index.php?page=/projects/puben/wiki /L_BeingZorai

This is a bit different from the Trykers' old rules, where the forbidden kind of fire is specified as "dragon fire", while camp-fires are in use in/around Fairhaven: "It is forbidden to spread dragon fire over the lands. It makes the land sterile." http://app.ryzom.com/app_lore/index.php?page=/projects/puben/wiki /L_BeingTryker, also for the Matis, who use camp-fires as well: "It is forbidden to spread dragon fire over the lands. It devours the trees and deprives us of essences for our creations." http://app.ryzom.com/app_lore/index.php?page=/projects/puben/wiki /L_BeingMatis.

So this makes me think that the word "dragon" before "fire" might have only been left out by mistake in the old rules for us Zorai... We might want to clarify this with our officials too in the future...

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#35 [en] 

Kamia'ata,

By reading your opinion, i think i found whre to add again this sentence :

Explanatory articles :

This law applies to Goo under its many forms, as well as to any kind of object, item-parts, fillings or components and the like, that are mixed, filled or processed with Goo of any kind, especially weapons, ammunitions and drugs made using Goo, called afterwards Goo-contaminated items, or objects. Such items , being contaminated, cannot be seen as "wares" or "goods".



I didn't give any interpretation at all, about research or experimentation. If I had to, I would consider these as different, as stated in the N'ASA text about ethics. But then, I guess we can take the risk to add a sentence still, like the following one, just before the sentence about sightings of Goo.

Only scholars and eventually scientists specifically authorized by the Theocracy are allowed to conduct researches on Goo within the Witherings, excluding any kind of experimentation with Goo, and with all caution and respect for nature.

I didn't wish to include a clarification about how to destroy Goo in this law, I asked for a clarification to be done, as a seminary, lesson, whatever . Because it is related to Goo doesn't mean it has to be in the law.

About fire, "Dragon Fire" is a term originating from the false teachings of the Karavan. We cannot allow such words to be used in the Theocracy. There is natural fire, uncontrolled and dangerous, and there is magic fire, which can be produced and controlled thanks to magic.

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#36 [en] 

I agree with your phrasings of the two suggested additions to the law:

"This law applies to Goo under its many forms, as well as to any kind of object, item-parts, fillings or components and the like, that are mixed, filled or processed with Goo of any kind, especially weapons, ammunitions and drugs made using Goo, called afterwards Goo-contaminated items, or objects. Such items, being contaminated, cannot be seen as "wares" or "goods".

Only scholars and eventually scientists specifically authorized by the Theocracy are allowed to conduct researches on Goo within the Witherings, excluding any kind of experimentation with Goo, and with all caution and respect for nature."

For the understanding of older laws/rules and theories about destroying Goo and fire I can foresee interesting discussions with our officials, maybe even at the upcoming Assembly with honored first physician Tao Sian.

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#37 [de] 

I just remembered something lately that I had long forgotten. It concerns the text for the Goo-bill as well the seminar about Goo by Tao Sian that will be held:

On the old temple of Ma-Duk outside of Zora it said:

"The Creation of Atys

From the beginning of time, two opposing principles formed the matrix of the universe: the Void and the Creative Energy, also known as the Life Giver.
...
From the bowels of the green planet, the great Life Giver brought forth the Kamis and endowed them with spirit, a fragment of his own consciousness, then sent them forth to watch over his creation. Gifted with vast magical powers, the Kamis came to the surface to explore the lands under their protection. Hidden in the midst of the wonders of Atys, the Kamis encountered the Goo, born from an infinitesimal particle of Void that was mixed in with the creative breath of the great Life Giver. The Goo was gradually devouring Atys.

The Kamis were helpless in the face of this menace, because they could not destroy the Void. Salvation would have to come from other beings: the homins.

The Kamis and the Zoraï

The Kamis initiated the Zoraïs into the secrets of magic.
...
Then the Zoraïs' high Magi began to study the arcane mysteries, using sacred writing to transmit their knowledge. They learned the secret powers of lightning, and created the first peoples' magic, the magic of electricity.
...
Using their magic and their knowledge of magnetism, the Zoraïs fought the Goo that was eating away at the forests of Atys. In the name of the Kamis, they bravely battled this plague."

http://en.ryzomnomnom.com/wiki/Kami#The_Kamis_and_the_Zora.C3.AF

We of Hoi-Cho have known the same text, there is practically no difference in our dialect, at least in meaning.

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#38 [de] 

any chance of getting a link from http://atys.ryzom.com and not a player written website like ryzomnomnom.com ?

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#39 [de] 

Hm, I have painted a picture at the time the old temple of Ma-Duk was still in place; it's only for the dialect of Hoi-Cho though:


Still this should prove that the text was actually there and was phrased just like I said.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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