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#53 [en] 

Atys'ata, Awakened Fey-Lin Liang,

So you are ignoring my questions again as I can see - this time it's the one about the "aim" that Assemblies should have. And once again you solely express your displeasure and point out mistakes, just as usual. I wonder if there is anything that will ever suit you; except for your own opinions and habits of course?

I am rather sad that you view my honest words and questions as some kind of accusation. Instead I thought you might appreciate it if someone dared to openly voice the impressions one might very easily get about your intentions. Not only when reading your suggestions for Assemblies of the Circles of course, but also by taking the imperious words into consideration that you have repreatedly used when talking to others up until now.

Oh yes, I should definitely rewrite some things; you are absolutely right.

a) there is in fact something missing in this sentences: "First of all you cannot order our Grand Sage Mabreka Cho where he should sit, neither our respected Sages! It doesn't surprise me that you would like to so nonetheless...".

It should be corrected to: "First of all you cannot order our Grand Sage Mabreka Cho where to sit, neither our respected Sages. It doesn't surprise me that you would like to do so nonetheless...".

Unfortunately the "do" was missing in the second sentence, I have to apologize for that.

b) yes, that sentence should be corrected as well: "It especially gives the Awakened more of a special space than now as I can see - what a coincidence that you yourself are an Awakened, no?".

I think it would sound better if phrased like this: "This especially provides the Awakened with a more outstanding position as it is now - what a coincidence that you yourself are an Awakened, no?"

c) unfortunately there are errors in this sentence as well: "Could it be you are so used to being the Orator for your city, Awakene Fey-Lin Liang, that you want to lead also the national Assemblies now and be able to command others if or when to speak like the Akenak enjoys doing?"

It should rather be: "Could it be that you have accustomed so much to being the Orator for your city, Awakened Fey-Lin Liang, that you now want to lead the national Assemblies as well and wish to command others if or when to speak, just like some Akenak enjoy doing?".

I have to apologize for leaving out the "d" when writing "Awakened".

to be continued...

Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#54 [en] 

... continuation

d) well, I do not really find any reason to rephrase this: "Your way of phrasing your suggestions with "shall" and "may" seems to indicate that you are used to giving commands to troops, as do your strict and military-like suggestions for the political Assemblies.".

Do you think it should rather be "phrasingyour suggestions using "shall" and "may" "? Hm, maybe it should also be "rigid" instead of "strict", shouldn't it?

e) sadly there are some mistakes in this passage too:

"So you do you, Awakened Fey-Lin Liang, want to have some longwinding philosophical reasoning of yoursself interrupted by "Orators" other than the Sages, for the purpose of proceeding to the next topics? Of course you don't. How interesting that you do not want only the Sages, but also the Awakened - such as yourself - to "approve" to putting an end to longer debates? Isn't your intention showing just too obviously?"

How about phrasing it like this instead:

"So would you, Awakened Fey-Lin Liang, be interrupted in some longwinding philosophical reasoning of yourself by "Orators" other than the Sages, so that the Assembly could proceed to the next topics? Of course you don't. How interesting that you do not want only the Sages, but also the Awakened - such as yourself - to first "approve" with putting an end to longer debates? Isn't your intention showing just too obviously?"

There was a superfluously "you" at the beginning of the passage and one "s" too many in "yoursself", my apologies.

f) well, there doesn't seem to be any mistake in this passage: "Do you ever include "respect" for the audience, for those you call "other Homins" in your picture as well; especially Non-Initiates living in the Witherings and Homins who hold important informations about a number of topics?"

That phrasing seems to be just fine.

g) my Min-Cho-dialect is not good enough as to know how to redo this sentence best, even if the word "own" appears twice, so I'd suggest leaving it as it is: "So shouldn't your own way to voice long arguments in a fast pace seem very "disrespectful" in your own eyes; since it makes translations harder and such "excludes" homins who speak other dialects?"

Or perhaps you'd prefer the wording "your own way of voicing long arguments" instead?

h) and yes, this passage needs to be revised too, true: "At the last Assembly you have even asked the Sage to address the topic you wanted to speak about first, even though he was not finished with putting together the list of agenda. So what is it really when you're talking about "respect"?"

"At the last Assembly you have asked the Sage to address the topic you wanted to speak about first, even though he was not finished with putting together the list of agenda. And you even phrased it as a surprise how the Sage could have "misunderstand" your question - just like you were naturally expecting him to answer to your concerns preferential. So what is it really when you're talking about "respect"?"

I hope this will suit your tastes more.

Zhoi

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#55 [en] 

/me is nauseated by the walls of text and certainly is not going to read all the bickering back and forth between two catty toons. If this is RP, I'd rather attend corporate meetings.

Just thought I'd share. Do you ever consider if other can follow and/or are interested in following your long-winded posts?

Last edited by Mjollren (1 decade ago)

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#56 [en] 

(OOC, since you are too, but should not be in an roleplaying-forum:
what else than a lot of text did you expect to find in a forum? Funny glittering pictures or a bunch of voice-files? Who cares that you don't care? This is not "sharing" but trolling, nothing else.
Have you ever considered how completely absurd it is to tell others that you didn't read what they have written but you still don't like it - even though you don't even know what it is all about?
Next time you feel the urge to put up troll-posts in some random forum-thread; then try this at a real-life political forum please. Those guys really deserve it at least.)

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#57 [en] 

[OOC]

I'd like to give my point of view, expecting this can cool down the topic (despite I know this barely works^^)

Like on the K/K opposition, it seems communities have different way to play.

On Aniro the assemblies were not all the same. Depending on countries the protocol was different, sometimes heavy, maybe impractical, but this give spicy, and fits to the Lore. For example it was common to mock the impossibility to attend to a chamber of Nobles without invitation if you were not a subject, even for a ambassador.

It seems to me that in several monthes all the internationnal assemblies will be "flatten". Discussions will occurs in full english with always the same people talking at the same level. At the end we'll only need one super-meeting at the ranger's camp.

According to IRL standards it will be very efficient, definitely. But ? what do we want ?
Well, one may say this is logical after living togother 8 years of exil in the same place...^^

On Aniro again, it was logical for someone who wants to involve for his country to pass some rite -citizen first- and then higher ones like Taliar, Akenak, Nobles and Awakened, or ambasador, etc. It was admited that those people had louder voices and responsabilities in their country, a advantage given for assuming a roleplay.

Feylin's proposition does not came from nowhere, and certainely not from her supposed wish to control theocraty, even if she loves to be involved for it. I think she only tries to perpetuate the traditions she had learned. I guess she feels a bit alone as a awakened. They should be more, and rotate for the role of orator (one per circle). Sometimes the orator is usefull as a fuse, not directly impling the Sage by arbitrating (I can tell even for zorais, the debates could be hard).

I do not say "Aniro is right". I just wanted to give my feelings.

[/OOC]

Edited 3 times | Last edited by Zendae (1 decade ago)

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Beauté, curiosité, virtuosité !

#58 [en] 

[OOC] Thanks, Zendae. I am aware that Feylin's proposals do not come from nowhere, as I knew a bit of Aniro even before the fusion, and observed several parts of the french language community's RP and most of forum communication since.

I do not say Aniro is wrong. But equally I do not say that the other communities, as far as they had lively roleplay, were or are wrong either.

As to the flattening, I fear that RP, when imposed the way proposed, will end in Aniro RPers conversing in English with nobody else listening. This will only be different in the Rangers' camp, the only place where interlingual communication and participation seems to work without major frictions.

As to the question of having to be Awakened or whatever to assume an office, nobody is demanding that exceptions approved by the authorities in the past in another world have to be generalized as a rule in the new world. But it is a legitimate demand and was assured before the fusion that those regulations in existance before the transition have to be honored. While I do not agree with Zhoi in a couple of questions, I here see a matter of principle and advise my fellow players not to give in. If the representative of the circles of Hoi Cho is not respected by her fellow Zorai in other regional circles, joint RP is not possible.

How the national assemblies have to be organized, is not my business, strictly spoken. I gave my opinion which is that as a non Zorai and non national, so it may be considered or ignored without any problem.

[/OOC]

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#59 [en] 

(OOC: thank you, Zendae :)

Yes, we on Leanon also had different protocols and organization for Assemblies. I think they have been much like on Aniro - well, at least in the beginning, when many players were still interested in political roleplaying. I already explained IC that a lot of "rules" have just turned out to make Assemblies inefficiently. But OOC there's more to it! In the beginning there were quite a bunch of representatives for each country. But rigid rules but most of all lazy, blocking, sometimes illogical acting "officials" drove them away one by one.

Also for "listeners" the Nation's Assemblies were very unpopular back then. When I started with politics in February 2011, there was an "audience" of sometimes only three characters; sometimes even none at all! The election of Ambassadors, sometimes enabling political influences on events and especially giving the audience the possibility to actually take part and give inputs made Assemblies livelier and more popular :)

No, I totally do not believe that national Assemblies will "flatten" - not at all. Just on the contrary; I was glad to hear more characters speak their mind at the last Assembly in Zora. This is a great development; and I would love to keep on encouraging them to continue doing so :)

On the other hand the very "structured" and organized Assembly of the Akenak in Pyr was a sad sight; as there were only two Akenak attending it, and the audience has significally shrunk compared to the Assemblies before. The regional Akenos of Dyron are confused about the behaviour of the Akenak. Akenos Malin has disapproved of that during the last Assembly of Dyron. I fear that she and Akenak Arrlon might even feel driven away. It's high time to talk about this OOC after no Akenos attended the last Assembly of Dyron.

Yes: what DO we want?
Well, I can tell you what I would wish for - OOC as a player of course:
I want more players roleplaying representatives of their Nations, and I want Assemblies to be interesting events for as many players as possible

* for that end I think the most important factor is that Assemblies should have an impact on the world by initiating Events - like the Ranger's Assemblies do. It should be that way of course - but sadly we from the former Leanon-community did not get any support at all by our Event Team for even one political Event that we have suggested since RP-politics has started once again :( I think that the Ranger's Assemblies are so lively mostly because of that; if there were no Events (like collecting materials or exploring the Kitin-Nest) the Assemblies would surely become less and less popular, just like all the National Assemblies...

* also it cannot be too hard to become representatives. The higher the hurdles, the lower the interest in doing political RP. That's why I think that the title "Honorary Initiate" is very valuable. You can use it to tell players OOC: "come and give RP-politics a try; you can see that there are ways to take part in RP-politics without leaving your guild or having to change your playing-style" :) IC Zhoi has worked hard to earn the title of "Honorary Initiate" by being politically active, by services for her Nation! I think that should be worth a lot - maybe more than merely passing a "test" without having much political experience

* players seem to need more motivation to take up political RP at the moment - especially nowadays as either speaking English has become so important during Assemblies; since this already had a devastating effect on the political representatives from the former server Leanon :( Some German-speakers feel that merely having good translators is not enough to help them to actually take part in RP as equals...

* German players have expressed more worries that prevent them from taking up RP-politics: there has been lots of talks about some French players trying to dominate "our" players in many ways, to force "us" to change "our" playing styles, including using dirty tricks in RP-politics, drowning out the opinions of their "colleagues" by not treating them as equals, or even to drive "us" away on purpose.

* national Assemblies are seen as rigid, even as "unfair", and such are becoming more and more unpopular for representatives and audience alike - it is something some German-speakers blame mostly on imperious French players; in reality it's of course because of decisions made by Event Team

* so I think that the Event Team should start doing their best with motivating players to take up RP-politics, by listening to their worries and smoothing the way - as much as the Lore allows of course. Sadly many think that at the moment the Event Team does exactly the opposite; demotivating players and making RP-politics more and more un-fun. To be honest it has already been so before, but lately has become worse

* no, it's not like I want every Assembly to be alike! Not at all. They aren't right now: just take the Akenak and the Assembly of Nobles for comparsion. Still every Assembly should take motivating players to take part into consideration in my opinion. That can be accomplished in different ways, so each Nation can be different.

What does Zhoi want IC?
Yes, she definitely wants Assemblies to be efficient - because Assemblies are the instrument to decide about national matters. Some matters are urgent and must not be delayed for too long, especially not just because of "honoring" time-wasting protocols. Yes, she has a history and keeping up contacts with other Nations for many, many AtysYears have of course formed her personality and views of the world.

I can fully understand Fey-Lin Liangs (the character's) motivations as a player of course. Do I seem to be stupid, or do you think I'm inconsiderate as a player? As a character Zhoi might be that sometimes, true ;) Still understanding does not mean supporting. I have my own reasons OOC and Zhoi has IC too.

Well, IC the Awakened Fey-Lin Liang and Zhoi will of course keep on fighting for the time being :D Nothing you can do about that I fear. There might be some votings at Assemblies about all this. But in the end it's the Event Team that will decide, as has always been, using their roles of officials and rulers.

Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#60 [en] 

Zendae (atys)
[OOC]
On Aniro the assemblies were not all the same. Depending on countries the protocol was different, sometimes heavy, maybe impractical, but this give spicy, and fits to the Lore. For example it was common to mock the impossibility to attend to a chamber of Nobles without invitation if you were not a subject, even for a ambassador.
[/OOC]

(ooc) On Leanon, none was allowed at the Chamber of Nobles but the Nobles and the Ambassadors (on whose the Chamber had to agree). There were - very, very rarely - public assemblies. (ooc)

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Salazar Caradini
Filira Matia
Royal Historian
Member of the Royal Academy of Yrkanis
First Seraph of the Order of the Argo Navis

#61 [en] 

After travelling for a long time through rarely visited places in the jungle, with thick undergrowth slowing down his pace, Irfidel gets back to Hoi-Cho. During his first contact with the trainers he picks up a few rumors here and there and wonders about the gossip.

Saddened, he shakes his head. "There is a political conflict between the Fyros and the Matis, personal conflicts between representatives of different races, remains of the Kitin mounds, mysterious followers of the Trytonistes, goo infested Igaras in the Upper Bog - wow, so much has happened. And what do the Zorai do? Start worrying about the seating order in the Assemblies??? What is Jen-Lai thinking they are doing?"

One thing is obvious to Irfidel: He will never accept a seating order during a Zorai assembly. A Zorai by heritage, but neutrally aligned to all of Atys, he will happily attend Assemblies and sit near his friends and near the sages if he is allowed to. But the Assemblies are not reporting meetings, they are not "top-down" communication sessions, they are discussions between the wise, and sometimes not so wise Zorais and those who hold the jungle in their heart. It is a time of talking and a time of learning for all.

The Zorai culture thrives on discussion and listening to alternate viewpoints. Irfidel goes to the nearest bar. "There was no need so far to put a Fyros or Matis attitude to our meetings." he exclaims to the barman. "What would you think if the capital next sends an order to you restricting who's allowed to talk in your bar to whom at what time? And who's allowed to sit with whom here enjoying your drinks?". Both he and the barman chuckle. But somehow it does not feel right. It is not a happy time.

#62 [en] 

Lol. Sounds like you should have been a Tryker Irfidel :P

#63 [de] 

Record/minutes from Frutor 25th in the first cycle of AtysYear 2573 (OOC: May 12th 2013)

Attendees:
* Sage Sens / Sinn / Sense / Gangi Cheng-Ho
* Sage Supplice / Sorrow / Bai Ji-Mao, der Leidende
* Awakened Sartyrica
* Awakened Fitis
* Awakened Fey-Lin Liang
* Initiate Valandrine
* Initiate Sari Sarisa
* Honorary Initiate Zhoi
* Filira Salazar Caradini from Davae
* Patriot Gladeusgladeus from Dyron
* Patriot Jarnys from Dyron
* Ranger Daomei Lin Carthan
* Mahija, Zorai from Windemeer
* Wasari Kealey-Abygrian from Windemeer
* Seternulon from Windemeer
* Guardi, Atys-Citizen from Windemeer
* Seranie, Tryker-Citizen from Windemeer
* Lunamoon from Windemeer
* Rasaya Di Carlo from Dyron
* Lilsis, Ma-Duk-Blessed
* Diwu, Fyros

List of Topics:
* ceremony for the second Great Swarming of Hoi-Cho, together with Min-Cho
* goo-infested Igaras in the upper bog in the Verdant Heights
* organisational issues
* still unanswered letters and motions to the Sages and officials
* news from the burning desert
* news from the Verdant Heights
* about Honorary Initiation
* petition for a mediation with the Sages by the Awakened Fey-Lin Liang

Detailled records can be found in the dialect of Hoi-Cho at the usual notice boards: http://app.ryzom.com/app_forum/index.php?page=topic/view/1422/274 #274

Last edited by Zhoi (1 decade ago)

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#64 [en] 

Letter to Hoi-cho Circles

Deles Silam Umaenai

I have to warn you that my sisters have discovered a trafic of contamined Igaras

One of us was killed in Loria while enquiring, be cautious please.

Igaras are transported asleep in covered cages, always by night time.

Departure is close to Black Circle, delivering point in Heretic's hovel, close to Folly farm, supposed to be received their by Darkening sap.

Of course this may have changed now...

Expecting this help the Theocraty for inquiring.

Best regards,

Zendae from Hamazans

Last edited by Zendae (1 decade ago)

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Beauté, curiosité, virtuosité !

#65 [en] 

Atys'ata, Zendae-miko!

Thank you very much for this valuable albeit shocking information.
My condolences for the loss of your sister.

All of this is especially sad when considering that Hoi-Cho has asked the Sages and Dynastic Circle on Fallenor 7th in the 2. cycle of AtysYear 2567 (OOC: May 5th 2013) to find a scout to be stationed near the tribe Black Circle for permanent observation of any suspicious movements, since our fair city has become officially "responsible" for "relations" with the Black Circle...

The Matis Nobles won't be pleased to hear about this either. Well at least the solution to stop the Igara-problem in the upper bog seems quite easy now... Please take care of yourselves during the battles.

Mata Zora
Zhoi, representative of Hoi-Cho

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#66 [en] 

Official apology

In private I have already apologized to the Awakened Fey-Lin Liang for going too far with my suspicions about her maybe selfish status-oriented intentions; and now I want to offer my apologies in public as well.

Since the day the Awakened Fey-Lin Liang told me that she disapproved of my status as Honorary Initiate and wanted to appeal against it, to take away my rights to vote at national Assemblies and to act as an official representative of the Theocracy, I felt quite bitter. I feared - or rather expected - that the Awakened would succeed in pushing me back to regional politics only, and such would exclude the voices and suggestions of Hoi-Cho from national politics completely, as the Awakened Sartyrica unfortunately often lacks the time to attend national Assemblies in person.

Fortunately and to my utmost relief the Grand Sage Mabreka Cho was so magnanimous to approve of my status loud and clearly during the last national Assembly of the Circles in Zora; so the danger of being driven out of national politics has been averted. As for the new organization of the procedure for national Assemblies a compromise was decided by the Sages, for this some parts of Awakened Fey-Lin Liangs suggestions have been granted, and some of my contradictions have been considered too.

Still with these decisions coming into effect no national Assembly on Atys now grants free speech any longer, at each and every Assembly handsigns are now obligate - such the biggest difference between the Nations has been eliminated. As a novelty the seating-order is a little bit different now and each city can have 3 self-chosen votes at national Assemblies, Awakened and (honorary) Initiates for a new balance and fairness.

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#67 [en] 

Here are the 5 different design-models we Zorai can choose from (3 representatives for each city are allowed to vote) for the new information-signboard that will be put up in Zora next to the stables.



Jen-Lai suggested that such a notice-board shall be established so that representatives from the amber-cities can inform the public about events and the like.

Some cities already had permanently set sign-boards before the second Great Swarming as a custom over many, many Atys-years. There have been notice-boards at the main-entrances of all 4 capitals on Atys for instance, presenting the most important informations about the political systems of the according Nations, about political active guilds/homins, and also pointing out a number of important laws to be observed - like the prohibition of showing weapons during official Assemblies in Zora or the ban of goo-infested items and munition back in those times.

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