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[Zorai]Assemblies of the Circles of the Theocracy in Zora and Hoi-Cho - EVENTS - Ryzom Community ForumHomeGuest

EVENTS


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#37 [en] 

The Awakened Fey-Lin Liang stressed that having to wait before speaking would ensure that people would think carefully and take their time to be as relevant as possible. And she said that Zoraï take time for wisdom before speaking.

In the community of Hoi-Cho public announcements have not been read by the dynastic circle or the Sages (which still seems that way; even letters are not being read in time, not to speak of ever being replied to), so that has proved to be a waste of time and effort. For a long time there haven't been enough representatives to appoint a speaker for each circle; and the importance of Awakened has dwindled because of their small number. The topics to discuss haven't been addressed by their circles but by decision of the representatives.

Waiting for everyone to put up their hand, being called up and then to finish their sometimes longwinded reasoning without interruption has cost so much time that Assemblies of Hoi-Cho lasted for many hours back in the old times and even then topics had to be postponed. So that was changed - letting everyone talk whenever they wanted to proved to be much more efficient. Letting the audience talk freely and even encouraging them to talk brought together a lot of informations that helped the Circles with their decisions. The writing of protocols for the community of Hoi-Cho was done by whoever took on that unwanted task.

On the other hand even being called up cannot prevent speakers from interrupting topics with unfitting comments anyway, as we have seen at the Rangers's Assembly for example. At the Akenak and also at the Assembly of Taliari we have experienced that orators either unintentionally or deliberately can overlook or even exclude homins - and such their information - by not calling them up. The Awakened Fey-Lin Liang protested against comparing them to the Zorai because of the different political structure of the Nations.

Initiate Valandrine pointed out that rules are means to an end, so the goals should first be agreed on; and for these ends efficiency will be needed just as much as order and ceremony. Initiate Altamira also approved of this. The Sage Sens sugested that all concepts should be written down in propositions to be compared, to maybe find compromises or a synthesis; or at least to have a vote about them.

Last edited by Zhoi (7 years ago)

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#38 [en] 

* order of Assemblies

A lot of topics of concern for the Circles are national and much less regional, and as homins tend to discuss national matters at regional Assemblies where they cannot be solved. So a new order of Assemblies was considered. The Awakened Fey-Lin Liang suggested to have one regional Assembly, then one national Assembly, followed by one regional again and so on. My humble self proposed to either have two national Assemblies then one regional, or just to let Hoi-Cho skip some of their regional Assemblies since they do not have so many regional topics to talk about.

After a few possibilities were discussed Initiate Valandrine suggested that regional and national Assemblies should be planned independently. Most of the representatives and the Sage Sens / Gangi Cheng-Ho agreed to have one national Assembly every two cycles (approx. 36 days in real life).

* ambassadors

The Sage Sens / Gangi Cheng-Ho explained that ambassadors for the Circles of the Zorai will have to represent the Theocracy at Assemblies of other nations, to ask questions, to make sure that letters are received and requests are heard, and also to report back about the atmosphere there towards the Theocracy. The ambassadors are supposed to coordinate their efforts, also in cases like congratulations to homins in other Nations.

Four representatives volunteered to be ambassadors; the Awakened Fey-Lin Liang, the Awakened Fitis, Initiate Altamira and my humble self. The Awakened Fitis volunteered to be ambassador in Aeden Aqueous, Initiate Altamira volunteered for the Burning Desert. My humble self volunteered as a protocolist and stand-in just in any such case where the official ambassador should be indisposed. For regional Assemblies though there would be only one fitting solution - for each ambassador to attend to as many regional meetings of cities where their own dialect is spoken as hominly possible.

Since the rules for ambassadors are not set in bark yet it is still a bit unclear what would happen if more than one representative of the Circles, ambassador or not, should be present at a foreign Assembly. Especially if representatives of other Nations should attempt to speak to other representatives of the Zorai instead of the designated ambassador - either because of personal acquaintanceship or because of sharing the same dialect.

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#39 [en] 

* the Ranger's plan to remove the kitin-mounds (and -tunnels)

After the Sage Sens / Gangi Cheng-Ho had left the Assembly the others discussed the current goo-problems a little longer. The Awakened Fitis has wanted to talk about the Ranger's plan of using termites, but she had to leave too. The Awakened Fey-Lin Liang admitted that the work of Ardan Keale on four isolated termite-colonies in the Almati-wood looked promising, but it would still pose an ethical problem in her eyes.

Daomei Lin Carthan tried to speak in favour for the Rangers while the Awakened Fey-Lin Liang explained her view of the balance of nature as it is seen by some Zorai based on the political principles of the Theocracy. There are of course also other valid interpretations and this is not to be seen as the one and only irrevocable truth. The Awakened Fey-Lin Liang stated that each lifeform on Atys has a different place in the world according to their spiritual advancement, which can be viewed as structured in circles either closer or further from Ma-Duk (also known to some as the Great Kami) which is the purest spiritual form.

I again want to point out that other homins would see the circles of spiritual advancement merely as an outline of our political structures explaining the different respectability and responsibilities of beings within the Theocracy. All Zorai with political functions have been inculcated with the fact that these circles should not be understood as a hierarchy; even though those closer to Ma-Duk are indeed seen as having elated higher in spirituality and the Awakened are viewed as lights to guide Initiates towards enlightenment.

The Awakened Fey-Lin Liang also believes that every life form on Atys has a spirit, a parcel of Ma-Duk himself. In her opinion the Zorai ethic should be to never harm any other beings in regard of spiritual accomplishment. The Awakened views natural predators and the need even of homins to feed on other living beings as part of the equilibrium of nature. But no creatures should be harmed without a need, because every being should have the opportunity to strive after spiritual advancement.

On the Sanctuary of Ma-Duk there was a teaching to be read long ago. It said that Ma-Duk can create something out of nothingness, and that he created the seeds of life. It does however not mean that every seed or life form actually carries a part of Ma-Duk within. Instead it was especially noted twice on the Sanctuary that the Kami have a part of Ma-Duk's spirit in them - which was not mentioned for any other life form on Atys. The Kitins were clearly said to be part of the life of Atys, very different from abominations like the Goo that is viewed as a part of the nothingness and the Karavan who are seen as outsiders not belonging to Atys.

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#40 [en] 

The Awakened Fey-Lin Liang sees a relocation of a large amount of species to other places than their natural region as endangering the equlibrium of nature; and she also views the Kitins as a threat to the equilibrium. Still she views natural magnetism as a phenomenon belonging to the equilibrium of nature; while the Karavan modify magnetism which then threatens the equilibrium.

Daomei Lin Carthan stressed that magnetism could still put the balance of nature in danger, and Initiate Altamira also viewed the treatment of the termites with magic potions as worrisome. While fire can occur naturally on Atys (flaming forest, pyrophoric sap) and is the main means to fight the Goo, the Awakened Fey-Lin Liang sees fire as a manifestation of the void. The Awakened differenciates between fire that is produced by magic, also used by the Kami, and the fire that homins make by using wood, oil and sap for instance (as campfire was made with alchemy).

My humble self stressed that the Zorai will not be able to talk the Rangers out of their plans with the termites. But it might be possible to persuade the other Nations of a better solution, if we can find such a solution in time. Sadly our fate now lies in the hands of the magnetic order and the tribes we have addressed with letters. They are supposed to set dates so we can visit them. It is a pity that the open letters have not been used to come to conclusions faster; we could have talked to the tribes much sooner then. I already proposed to visit the Gibads and ask them about the kitin-mounds on Mystia 17th in the first cylcle of AtysYear 2572 (March 4th) to Min-Cho and Jen-Lai.

We could not calm all of our worries. The Rangers have already made clear that they will respect the wishes of the Theocracy and will not experiment with termites in the Witherings. Still individuals could bring some of those termites into the Withering - by accident or even willingly. We can only hope that the Rangers will guard their experimental termite mounds well. As long as the tunnels are there the Kitins can invade us anytime easily, so we should act as quickly as possible. Also nobody knows if Goo might already be spreading through those kitin-tunnels below the bark. Hopefully it does not, even though Goo has been found in the Kitin-lair lately coming from the blackmoors.

In the end we did not reach a conclusion other than the ones already in motion. And with that the Assembly ended.

Last edited by Zhoi (7 years ago)

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#41 [en] 

Here are my suggestions for Assemblies:

The aim and such the reason for all rules to our Assemblies should be to enable the Circles to come to wise political decisions or at least to be able to make wise motions to our Sages in due time; quickly if necessary.

1. Topics

a) collecting a list of topics as a first deed at the Assembly by asking all homins present what to discuss about has proved to be a good thing to keep an overview. When representatives and homins from the audience have added all topics that they wish to discuss it either should be self-evident that the discussions will begin - or maybe the attending Sage / representative of the Dynastic Circle might want to point this out specifically.

Putting up such a list of topics on public boards before the Assembly would be too hard to accomplish - since all representatives from the three cities of amber and maybe ambassadors from other countries would have to add to it in time nowadays. Also it might not be possible to announce discussions about sudden events in time.

b) I strongly suggest that the order in which topics are discussed should not be decided according to Circles, but instead according to the immediacy to find political solutions or decisions therefore. An imminent danger to the Theocracy should always be put first; also foreign affairs that have to be answered by our government soon.

Sometimes we will not have the time to adress all topics during an Assembly like it has happened at the last one in Zora. Since a necessary cutting of time is sometimes not foreseeable we should always talk about the most important topics first to make sure that they will be solved as soon as possible.

c) also it must be allowed to add more topics to the list of topics later on too. I insist on this condition. It always happens that not all of the important topics are mentioned or remembered when the list is put together in the beginning. Late-comers might want to add topics to the list, and urgent topics might come up suddenly as well; like the goo-infested igaras during our last Assembly in Zora or other incoming informations.

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#42 [en] 

2. directing the Assemblies

I am very much against having an orator "in charge" to be elected from all representatives; especially not only Awakened ones to do this always. Having a Sage or someone from the Dynastic Circle lead the Assembly has always proved sufficient. There are just too many disadvantages to having an orator additional to the Sage or dynastic representative, and we Zorai should be wiser than other Nations in this aspect.

Having Sages lead the Assemblies will make sure that their wise words will be heard at all times without them having to ask other Homins for speaking-time. Also they will be able to follow the discussions easier and it will make sure that they will receive requests properly if they themselves can organize the Assemblies and calm heated discussions if they feel the need to do so.

Foreign Homins might view it as a sign of disrespect towards a Sage to let another Zorai lead the Assembly instead of the wisest ones present. It might even lower the status of the Sages in the minds of the audience, thinking that Sages are not well-respected in the Theocracy if they just have to stay passive. This has already happened at Assemblies of the Akenak with the Sharükos. On the other hand some Homins might view the current orator/s as having an overly important status in the Theocracy - maybe this is what those aiming to be orators secretly wish for; but I regard this as inappropriate.

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#43 [en] 

3. choosing speakers

Nobody should be forced to first raise their hands and afterwards to wait humbly to be called up. All that waiting has already caused too many Assemblies to be extremely extended and/or has even led to leaving topics unadressed - just like it happened at the last Assembly in Zora. Wisdom is to learn from experience.

To postpone the discussion of important events just because of having wasted too much time by waiting doing nothing is not tolerable. The grave consequence might very well be that our Nation could be overrun by invasions or hit hard by catastrophes that have not been prevented in time just because our Assemblies has not been able to properly discuss the upcoming threats timely. We cannot have that happen.

Another disadvantage of raising hands and waiting is that it's just too easy to overlook someone or to scramble up the order of those who have put up their hands; so Homins might feel mistreated. Also waiting a bit too long before calling Homins up can often make their input harder if the topic has already slightly changed while they had been waiting And shy Homins might not even dare to put up their hands or miss the right timing to do so; such we could miss important information. This is an important worry that I want to stress; because instead we should encourage Homins to participate..

At the Assembly of the Akenak, but also at the Assembly of the Taliari (!), ignoring hands that were up in the air for a long time and not wanting to hear information from specific Homins has already been viewed as as a method to exclude unwelcome opinions, to show vilification to Homins or to even shut out "unwanted" facts (like the Akenak did not want to hear about what has happened in Yrkanis). If we Zorai also forced others to first have to raise their hands and then to wait patiently for a call-up it might give some Homins the impression that we also might want to abuse these rules, since Homins have already experienced others doing so.

Also leaving too many silent breaks bores the audience, might drive Homins to leave Assemblies early or could make them not even show up at the next Assembly at all. And there have already been complaints like that. All of these consequences are extremely problematic. Instead it would be wiser to gather all interested Homins and encourage them to share informations - according to the Zorai-value of knowledge/teaching, so well-rounded decisions can be made by the Circles.

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#44 [en] 

4. distinguishing speakers

As our Assemblies are normally easy to overview it seems to be a good idea if the ones wanting to talk for more than just a short comment would stand up and then will sit down again after being done. This makes it easier to recognize the right moment when a speaker has finished a longer argument, request or pleading. Still small comments or mere approvals should be allowed to be expressed without longwinded deeds or restrictions, so Homins will not hesitate to speak up because of too many rules troubling them.

5. the role of the listeners

Neither representatives nor audience should be forced to stay silent to "let others talk" nor to keep discussions "calm". By that not only time will be wasted but also the audience will feel forced to resort to different methods like gestures or murmurs to express their opinions in time. On Atys nobody can "interrupt" someone else, nor can anyone drown out voices of others. Everyone is still clearly head. So let's make use of this benefit. And I want to stress that Homins shall never be forced to merely think their comments instead of voicing them.

Silence and quiescent do not have anything to do with the values of our people. Meditation is not the right principle to be put first at a political Assembly that should instead serve the purpose of working out political decisions. It is much wiser to talk and be informed thoroughly first and to meditate about it afterwards and before the next Assembly to phrase arguments wisely. And even to know about how Homins feel about things can be a valuable information for political matters, so everyone should feel motivated to talk.

Having to wait does not make anyone wiser. And it is no requirement for wisdom to take one's time. Just a few minutes or mere seconds of thinking about what to say cannot make arguments significally "better" anyway; especially when in reality there is no time to think but instead one listenes what is said by others during this waiting period, perhapes even getting distracted by that. Being tardy and waiting silently for a long time before doing anything is definitely not a part of wisdom, not even to speak of a necessary one.

All in all holding on to detrimental settled habits, and perhaps even calling them "traditions" mereley to justify the laziness to think them over is the exact opposite of wisdom. Times are changing and in the name of wisdom customs sometimes have to change with time little by little to be able to serve their purpose.

That would be all, thank you for reading and considering these proposals.

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Zhoi (7 years ago)

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#45 [en] 

Kamia'ata laï-ho'i,

Here is my own proposal :
  • Firstly, an agenda, or list of topics, has to be commonly made and announced, enough time before the day of the Assembly so that attendance can work on any announced subject in advance.
  • The Assembly has to examine each Circle in the following priority order : Defense Circle (priority to any threat, wether it may be homins, kitins or Goo), Exploration Circle (including diplomatic relations with outsider entities), Dynastic Circle, construction Circle, Spirituality Circle.
  • On the day of the Assembly, each participant has to show his title related to the Theocracy, and take place, siting down, according to his Circle by the criterions of the Theocracy (look at his : first chapter)
    This shall look like this :
  • Exceptionally, some homins not belonging to the Theocracy may sit amongst Initiates, particularly foreign ambassadors, in order to facilitate their speaking.
  • The assembly shall be directed by an Orator, whose charge will be to announce the beginning of the Assembly, its agenda (list of topics), ask for and take into account its possible modification, announce the different Circles and their topic, eventually intervene to bring back calm or moderate the discussions so that, in particular, translators have time to accomplish their mission, and finally, annouce the end of the Assembly. The Orator shall be choosen amongst attending Sages, Awakened or Initiates by consensus before the Assembly begins.
  • A report (ooc : germans often use the english term "protocol" which seems not to have the same meaning as their "Protokol", or at least, "protocole" in french exists but is far from the same meaning, let's avoid cross-language confusion) shall be written in each dialect by rapporteurs, who shall introduce themselves after the Orator is deisgnated.
  • Translaters shall introduce themsleves after the Rapporteurs, before the beginning of the Assembly
  • Speaking shall happen by turn, with scrupulous respect for the speaking time of previous one. One shall stand up to speak, and sit down to show he has finished. Anyone willing to speak shall stand up to indicate this, and shall wait the previous speaker to sit-down (and translations to be done) before beginning himself.
  • Only one person may stand to ask for speaking while someone else is speaking already. In case more than one people stand up at the same time, one of them shall sit-down to let priority to the other, in worst case according to the order of the Circle they belong to, by criterions of theTheocracy. If no one would give up, the the Orator shall intervene to designate who would be the next to speak. The Orator has the right to intervene at any time to give speech rights to anyone before others, in particular to allow someone from a lesser Circle to speak, preventing him to wait and pass turn too often
  • In case of excessively long debates, the Orator has the authority to interrupt and propose to report the topic, so that next topics may be examinated. the proposal has to be approved by the Sages and Awakened

I want to precise that according to me, allowing such freedom to speak as you proposed; Zhoi, would make the task of translators completely impossible, as everyone would speak without waiting that everyone else has been able to understand. This would be particularly disrespectful, and lead to exclude homins who may not speak more than their own dialect.

Fey-Lin Liang

[ooc : another thing, making too much things depending on the Event Team shoulder's shall be avoided as soon as possible so that they can focus on events. So for example, we shall not expect from them to set the list of topics, lead all assemblies and more ...]

Edited 5 times | Last edited by Feylin (7 years ago)

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#46 [en] 

[ooc:]A short comment to Feylin's proposals: If you succeed to impose these rules onto the international assembly, it will surely be the end of international roleplay. I do not believe that many of the non french participants will appear at such meetings. As to the participation of the sages: they were at least some kind of an impartial element so far. If you want Zorai RP becoming a Jen Lai only performance, this will surely be the right way.I can congratulate you to the success of already having nearly driven out the representative of Hoi Cho from Zorai RP. When that is done, Hoi Cho activity will die down as Min Cho already widely has.[/ooc]

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#47 [en] 

[ooc] Daomei, i just don't see why. It seems that you (all) are fine with having gathering in the same way as IRL chats, this is not my case, i like the events to have a taste of different culture. This is what i try to have, and have worked on with many topics related to Zoraï culture. This is going to be discussed in roleplay, so you can't seriously tell me i am imposing something.
If you rather have a Sage doing the Job of Orator that i described, it's fine, as long as they are willing too.
And allowing translators to have the time to do their job is a real matter.
It seems that you build an opinion on my OOC motivations that is wrong. I can just suggest you to stop making prejudice on me.[/ooc]

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Fey-Lin Liang
Li'laï-ko
Talian-Zu

#48 [en] 

First of all: thank you, Awakened Fey-Lin Liang, for informing Hoi-Cho about your ideas. It confuses me a little that you didn't use the open letters but added your suggestion to the minutes of Hoi-Cho...

What kind of "aim" would you see for our Assemblies to have? You might remember Initiate Valandrines words that the Sage agreed to?

1. I can assure you that the agenda cannot be prepared before the Assembly, even if I would like it. I have already revealed the reasons for this in my own suggestion. You cannot order the Sages to read or even add to this list of topics before the Assembly if let's say they want to invite special guests or announce news.

2. your suggestion to address the topics in this order seems logical enough, but there what if the Sages have breaking news to tell us - do you want to tell our Sages to respect "speaking orders" and wait with their announcements - maybe until the end of the Assembly or the timespan of their attendance? And what if special guests do not have much time and can attend to the Assemblies only a short while?

More efficiency is much needed for our Circles, as we have already been able to experience. We should never forget our goal to reach solutions and decisions for all important topics in time, and never too late.

3. this seating order is an interesting idea since it would be the only visible difference to the Assemblies of other Nations. Still I cannot agree to it. First of all you cannot order our Grand Sage Mabreka Cho where he should sit, neither our respected Sages! It doesn't surprise me that you would like to so nonetheless...

Secondly it is too complicated and would need too much space. Also we were repeatedly told that our circles of the Theocracy should not be seen as a hierarchie. But sadly this order would make it seem so... It especially gives the Awakened more of a special space than now as I can see - what a coincidence that you yourself are an Awakened, no?

Titles should never be the main factors to distinguish others; especially because some ambassadors or representatives of foreign countries do not even have titles they could show; you know? The balance of the cities should also be counted. And how could anyone's seat possibly facilitate their speaking? That's absurd.

I suggest a compromise as it seems more functional: let the representatives of the Circles and cities who are entitled to vote at the Assembly sit a bit closer to the ones leading the circle (the Sages, their assistants like those from the Dynastic Circles and their special guests) so that it will be easier to see them when they stand up and to overview their votings.

4. I am still very much against naming an Orator instead of the Sage/s who is/are leading the Assemblies. I have named the reasons already. We have seen that no Orator was needed until now, as the Sages have led the Assemblies. Wanting to reduce their importance for Assemblies shows grave disrespect I believe.

Could it be you are so used to being the Orator for your city, Awakene Fey-Lin Liang, that you want to lead also the national Assemblies now and be able to command others if or when to speak like the Akenak enjoys doing? Your way of phrasing your suggestions with "shall" and "may" seems to indicate that you are used to giving commands to troops, as do your strict and military-like suggestions for the political Assemblies.

5. what about "bringing back calm" or "moderating"? This is not necessary. Do you really believe that silence and waiting just for the purpose of waiting are some kind of Zorai principles? Nobody on Atys can "interrupt" others, and nobody can drown out voices of others. Everyone is clearly heard. Just not the voices of those that an Orator might wish to order to be silent like the Akenak tries to do of course...

It is not a sign of disrespect to reply to someone when you think s/he has finished talking; which happens often. If a dialogue picks up speed - even after putting up hands and being called up! - then translators will not be able to keep up as it has already happened before. This is not a matter of "speaking order" at all, but rather of speaking speed.

Last edited by Zhoi (7 years ago)

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#49 [en] 

6. I don't see any need to have minute takers introduce themselves, also not translators. For example: the honored Awakened Astarth never wrote a record for the first national Assembly of Zora in the dialect of Min-Cho even though he said he would. At the moment we can consider oneselves fortunate if we can even find someone willing to translate and to write journals. To make these matters seem like duties and add more bureaucratic formalities to them could very well only raise the hurdles and nobody might volunteer then.

7. so you want to exchange the hand signs that have been in use up until now with standing up as a sign that someone wants to speak - and only one "next" in line would be allowed to do so? As interesting as it sounds this cannot work out. It's just too unrealistic, sorry. You do not really expect Homins to sit down again when others have stood up just an instant before them and then not being able to signal that they still want to speak later on, do you?

Especially as there are new arguments being brought up during everyone's speach that even more Homins would like to comment to as well. This would only end up by seeing everyone throw murmured comments around. And trying to keep up "calm" and organize such a complicated standing order would just keep those busy that have to lead Assemblies - but for a completely unreasonable end.

Also this would take much too long. Our last Assembly has shown that we should not ever again dilly-dally but instead must try to come to decisions faster. To slow down the collection of informations could very well lead to the postponing of many topics that could not be addressed in time.

Some people will not want to give their imputs anymore if the hurdles to do so should get too high; I have been told so already by some Homins! A "standing order" would only lead to that end - the audience keeping silent, not daring to say a thing. Being not informed thouroughly and such draw the wrong conclusions would be the worst outcome for the Circles. The goal of Assemblies should be to find wise decisions timely.

8. about translations: sometimes translations have been done secretly by whispering (language-specific universe chat or user-chat) instead of being done aloud as it has been at the very first Great Assemblies of our Nations. Secrecy has been of disadvantage: if speakers cannot hear if the translators are able to keep up or are falling behind, then they cannot show consideration by slowing down their speaking speed.

9. so you do you, Awakened Fey-Lin Liang, want to have some longwinding philosophical reasoning of yoursself interrupted by "Orators" other than the Sages, for the purpose of proceeding to the next topics? Of course you don't. How interesting that you do not want only the Sages, but also the Awakened - such as yourself - to "approve" to putting an end to longer debates? Isn't your intention showing just too obviously?

As you repreatedly speak of "respect", Awakened Fey-Lin Liang: what do things like that even have to do with "respect" or "disrespect"? Has respect - or rather showing submissiveness by staying silent while you are talking - suddenly become the most important principle of our people and Nation? Do you ever include "respect" for the audience, for those you call "other Homins" in your picture as well; especially Non-Initiates living in the Witherings and Homins who hold important informations about a number of topics?

Edited 2 times | Last edited by Zhoi (7 years ago)

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#50 [en] 

Again I want to point out that translating does not get harder by speaking orders or by brief comments being thrown in - but instead by the amount of words that are spoken in a short time. It often happens when single Homins are unrolling long arguments, but in a fast speed of speach. Like you, Awakened Fey-Lin Liang, and also my humble self use to do.

So shouldn't your own way to voice long arguments in a fast pace seem very "disrespectful" in your own eyes; since it makes translations harder and such "excludes" homins who speak other dialects? At the last Assembly you have even asked the Sage to address the topic you wanted to speak about first, even though he was not finished with putting together the list of agenda. So what is it really when you're talking about "respect"?

It just can happen, and in fact very often does, that you might think someone has finished their arguments already and just as you start to reply they will then add another sentence. That's how things are like on Atys, because everybody needs a little time before saying a whole sentence. Do not call this "disrespect", as it would be unfair.

Translating even when Homins have freedom to speak has worked out very fine for a number of times already. The Nobles of the Matis for instance are quite free to speak. And it seems like you are soon going to be appointed Zorai-Ambassador for the Verdant Heights, doesn't it?

10. oh, and about weapons: the Sage Sens / Gangi Cheng-Ho has already asked a homin - Akenak Rollocks - to put away his weapon at an Assembly of Hoi-Cho. So it seems that the Sages want to forbid the carrying of weapons at Assemblies. Perhaps they won't mind magic amplifiers, I don't know. I suggest asking them.

That was all, thank you for reading

(OOC: about Events - are you mocking us on purpose? You of Jen-Lai and other French cities are the only ones to have gotten any regional Events organized by the Event-Team. We of the former server Leanon have suggested a number of Events already, also political ones like the Ceremony for the second Great Swarming; but there has not even been ONE Event executed by the Event Team for our language group since the server merge. Our wishes are just postponed and postponed time and again.

The little bit of talking at Assemblies is ALL we Leanon-roleplayers have right now. Well, except for prices being given to three Homins quickly at one occasion; which I can hardly call an "Event" at all. And a small number of player-events like guild-celebrations or a black market once, which have once or twice been spiced up a little by decoration provided by the Event Team for that short time...

Still the Assemblies are the only times when the Event Team actually talks to us IC; as the forums are not read and too many of our political letters have just been ignored as well. Thank you for encouraging them to sleep through the Assemblies in the future and doing even less!

And about what Daomei said: well, I still have hopes for Min-Cho. At least Fitis and Astarth have become Awakened lately :) But the interest in attending to Assemblies is definitely dwindling among former Leanon-players. Have you noticed that the Awakened Sartyrica hasn't said much at all at the last Assembly she attended? The player came online during the last Assembly as well (even though it was a little late, but the Sage was still with us); however did not even want to come to Zora.

And just yesterday there should have been an Assembly of the Akenos in Dyron - but not only did the two Akenos not show up in Dyron, also the Event Manager, the imperial messenger, did not. This has never ever happened before.

Nine "other" Homins, the "audience", waited for one and a half hour talking a bit about this and that until the last ones left. One of them said that the Assemblies in Pyr are not worth attending any more, others say that Assemblies have become boring because of so many silent waiting-pauses that the French players insist on, and others think their characters should best stay away from Assemblies as a logical reaction to have been treated badly or because their Nation had been insulted. It was outright depressing.)

Edited 8 times | Last edited by Zhoi (7 years ago)

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#51 [en] 

Hello,
Zhoi (atys)
8. about translations: sometimes translations have been done secretly by whispering (language-specific universe chat or user-chat) instead of being done aloud as it has been at the very first Great Assemblies of our Nations. Secrecy has been of disadvantage: if speakers cannot hear if the translators are able to keep up or are falling behind, then they cannot show consideration by slowing down their speaking speed.

I'm sorry to interrupt in a zoraï subject. I just want to add one thing about this "technical" part, since I'm sometimes acting as translator.
Since I feel this subject is a bit tense, feel free to make me know if I have to remove it from here (and, please, consider any "unrespectful" sentence as a consequence of English not being my native language, and not from any lack of respects to the players involved).

I agree on the fact that having a separate channel for translation, usually user-chat for the events I have attended, has disadvantages.
- One of them, you mentionned it, being that speakers don't know when to slow down or make a pause for translators to keep the pace.
- An other one, that I have heard about, being that it requires players to follow 1 more channel, since part of the around chatter may also be in their language.
- I also heard that some players already had some others user-chat opened, and it required them to close one to open the translation-chat.
- There may be others that I'm not aware about.

I agree on all of these disadvantages for the attending players, and I, as a player, understand why I've seen, on some events, all the translations for a linguistic group done on the around channel.
For that matter, when translating to english, I also do it usually in around, since I don't know of any specific channel for english-speaking players.

As an occasional translator (and not as a player following the event this time), I'd like to point the advantages that I find in a separate translation-channel. (It is only my feeling. Others translators might disagree.)
Globally, they result from the fact that translation in around means 3 times the same conversation being held at the same place.
- The translator has got to read each sentence (or at least, the beginning of it), and decide if s/he has to translate it or if it is already a translation. It takes time. It takes concentration. And when the pace is quick, it definitively increases the difficulty of the task.
- It means more lines shown up on the screen. Either you increase the size of your around-chat window (and even this has sometimes reached the limits of my screen) or you scroll up and down. More times, and more concentration, required.
- Last one is not directly related with the previous ones : sometimes, for reasons of their own, players may be out of reach of the speaker (big assembly, temporarily afk, character logged for chatlog but no player attending...). A separate channel means that the player still can get the contents of the event.
(Agreed, it also means that someone not attending the meeting knows about what happens. On an IC point of view, it may be a disadvantage.)

Since I've never attended any Circles meeting, all this is a bit theoric in this context.
I just hope that it might explain why, when translating an event, I prefer working on a separate channel. As may some others.

Thank you for your attention.
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