IDEAS FOR RYZOM

Ok, I see two different usages here:

• Permanent, long-term storage for items that you're only going to use seldom. Hoarding supremes to make a boosted maga amp, for example.
• Temporary storage for convenience. For example, accumulating some thousands of excellent materials to make a few boosted armillo sets, or just for the convenience of not having to stop and craft.

Now, for the long-term storage needs, I believe apartments and guild halls are quite fine as they are. I don't see a lot of folks chafing under this limitation, except for a few players that dig and dig and dig and end up with thousands of supremes and excellents.

The problem is compounded because people do keep a lot of less-than-needed materials around. Killed some choice named? Chuck its parts in the guild hall, regardless of how useful the materials are. Dig 500 excellent zun? Chuck it there, you never know when you're going to need to make 20 amps at once.

So, for the folks that require a lot more storage, I propose space rental (and I know it's nothing new).One would pay a small price, say 7500 dappers per day per extra 1k bulk (in apartement) / 5k bulk (in guild hall). The dappers could be subtracted directly from the player or from the guild funds. Per year it's something akin to 2 million dappers, which isn't a lot.

Should you go into arrears, you get a 7-day grace period to pay back the money owed. Fail to do that, and the stuff in storage goes to the merchants to be auctioned off; first with 9000% markup, going down each day for another 7 days until it reaches 0% markup. This would ensure that the feature only works for somewhat active players, and it would indirectly help the crafters by sometimes throwing materials (and/or equipment) on the market.

But unconditionally adding more storage? No. People with hoarding tendencies would just keep on hoarding, and 1 year later we would get the same kind of complaint about "insufficient space".

I read that as "I see no problem with having 2-10 alt guilds per active toon, so there's no reason to fix anything".

Hoarders will hoard, regardless. If you try to make it a dapper-sink then the cure will be worse than the disease, so folks will ignore your pseudo-solution and keep doing what they have done for years.

I think the only solution is to increase character wide storage but also add anti hoarding measure such as raw materials spoiling over time.

what i would suggest is resources spoil over a period of x-years but in staid of a realtime countdown bind it to a season or year counter. (real time like resale timers, would create to many separate)
*example* timer/tooltip displays:
(total 2 years if seasonal)
Gained: Spring 2607
Spoils: Spring 2609
or
(total 8 years if yearly)
Gained: 2607
Spoils: 2615

1: all 'bark' gained in a season stacks with the same season+year
(stacks of bark: spring 2607, summer 2607, autumn 2607, winter 2607, spring 2608, summer 2608, autumn 2608, winter 2608, spoiled stack)
or
2: all 'bark' gained in a year stacks with the same year
(stacks of bark: 2607, 2608, 2609, 2610, 2611, 2612, 2613, 2614, 2615, spoiled stack)

#1 would be shorter gaps between digs from ending up on the same stack then #2 would, while #2 has potential for longer periods vs nr of stacks but if you dig bark at the end of winter 2608 it will spoil just as fast as bark dug in spring of the same year.

I'm trying to think in terms of energy flow through the path of least resistance, applied to economy.

You know, music piracy wasn't curbed via drastic anti-piracy measures, but instead with the creation of alternative avenues -- streaming services. The comparison actually works, if you think that die-hard pirates still pirate, regardless of how accessible their media is. But for MANY people, a small payment to Spotify or Youtube Premium is preferable.

Back to game:

Currently, if you want to store several thousands of materials, your ONLY option is to make alts. Several. As many as needed.

Well, my point is, give people an alternative. Willl some of them fail to use it? Sure. Will some of them accept it? I believe they will, if the price is right.

Consider that the alt route isn't painless, on the contrary, it involves using several toons, logging and relogging your main character, or subscribing several accounts. Are there people that would highly prefer doing a few extra crafting missions, get some money, and avoid this hassle? I believe so.

I don't see it as strong enough incentive, especially not considering the years of Ryzom steadfastly refusing to do anything at all that would make life easier/better. Storage has been an issue for over a decade now. If there were any chance at all of it ever being changed in any way, shape, or form, it would've happened years ago.

Things have changed recently ... with all the events and special Xmas, Halloween, Easter, etc items ... the collectors among us, it would be convenient to to have a space to "virtually" store these items.

This could be done simply by having a separate storage space for event items ... or just by the post event patch setting the Item Bulk to 0.  The virtual storage space could have a cooldown such that if you want to "bring it out of your storage" locker... you have to wait X number of days.

Personally, I'm fine with the game's storage options.  I use two storage alts but they don't have apartments or packers.   They are only for guild storage.

One holds mats commonly used standard like a) TGIS mats for HA sets ... SMGV mats for LA s... standard polnts jools ... exe zun and  the crappy amp mats amp fiber and bark mats .... Excess cats / flowers are stored there ....

Every 6 months or so will make 20 sets of HP / Focus LA ... a dozen exe amps and put them in the 2nd storage GH.  When a guild does their periodic mass craft day where they aim for boosts and then don't have room in their GH for the non-boosts and degrades, when lucky enough to be around on the receiving end of their spring cleaning, these go in there.

On the personal storage level .... Im not much of a hoarder.   I lost all my nostagic stuff in merge ... and Im not inclined to save the rewards from Silan.   If I have 1 better than the other, the other gets tossed or given away.  Not one to have a series of "outfits"  ...  don't give  a hoot about how toon looks.   But as others are into collecting, or "Vogueing" as the song goes, a distinction has or at least should be made between what one needs and what one is just afraid of making a decision on what to throw away.   Do you really need those Level 170 sups, you save back when you were level 150 ?  

Are they resouces or clutter ?  I have to go thu GH as, for reasons i can't understand ... we have partial sets of armor and jools that I have to dump quarterly.   If ya can't seem to let go of clutter, and just don't want to part with anything,  just in case .... well there's a 12 step program for that :)

One can only really use one set of any particular gear at a time and there's plenty of storage for that ... there's plenty of storage for a backup ... or 2.  If you just have to keep things because you are a collector and want to pull them out occasionaly like easter bonnets, thats a horse of a different color.

Virtual storage where you could put stuff away "in the attic" where it was in a separate tab and where everything had 0 bulk, would I think satisfy most.  Your event related (i.e. Atysmas) gear would automatically (if checkbox checked) be moved to bag when next year's event started and back out when it ended... if ya didnt have the room, the popup would say you don't have the room just as when doing a player exchange.  No craft mats in virtual storage.

As to simply increasing what we have now, I have mixed feelings ... really don't care one way of the other for myself.  However ... after watching folks grinding jools with sup zun pre-merge because they had 10k and might as well use it up ... and 1 man guilds with 40,000 Sups, I understand the logic of why a limit exists..... to inhibit hoarding.

It's a topic that has come up many times and there's been many threads over the years.    Whether it gets on the list or doesn't would seem to depend on the popularity of the proposal # for versus # against and how that measures up against the dev's vision for the game.  That fact that it keeps coming back indicates an issue that some folks feel strongly about.  The fact that it hasn't been implemented, tells another story.

Virtual storage for event gear and collectables and such... it's something that I  would support ... likely would not use as have little need atm.   But years down the road when there 1 new halloween weapon and differnt armor sets and lingerie, I could see it coming in handy.  More storage so I can store 8 sets of focus and 8 sets of dig LA ... 4 sets of sup HA plus the mats to make 40 more... nah, let other folks have a chnace to get some.

i think virtual storage is a nice middle ground that bothn PoVs could live with.

A part of me can't help but chuckle at how many years that's been the case.

Maybe an electoral college is needed to push it over the edge :)

Curious ... what's giving you headaches ? mat storage ... reguklar every day gear storage ?

Both.

As to mat storage ... while digging or looting in the field by way of gathering enough to meaningfully begin crafting as intended, the storage capacity on location often consists of some mere fraction of one‘s own inventory, the rest having necessarily been taken up by the equipment needed in order to so function in the field. The consequence is then, crafting on site can but produce a scant few of the to be crafted items or even none at all. It often is necessary to make several trips to and fro in order to dig up or loot enough of the resources needed to craft.

You say perhaps: ‚because ryzom‘ and ‚so is the game … live with it!‘ Fine. Agreed. But that does not make it any less desirable nor any less one‘s unspoken desire, that a bit more generosity become shown in service to those, to whom such complications all too drastically slow their progress and productivity in crafting.

As to the storage of one‘s gear: in end effect, the same situation.

Imagine, however, that storage rental be available ingame (however ingame economically and lore fittingly realized) 8)

One could then pay to have just the capacity needed for one‘s needs of the moment, go then about the business of gathering up the needed ingredients and eventually close up the day‘s efforts with a session of crafting and stowing of the crafted items, the which to in the end so therewith dispose as one deems fitting. What a pleasant situation by comparison to the ot this day existing compulsions. 8) And how much more alluring that would make the paying for a subscription in the view of routinely only F2P players!

After all, such an arrangement would surely prove to be much more convenient and much less of a hassle for the F2P player then the creation and the subsequent handling of multiple F2P player accounts and its player characters needed to approach the same level of capacity and playability.

Yet, subbing instead would be even more convenient and pleasantly playable, while nevertheless being less costly, as much in dappers as in needed playing time investment. 8)

Add to that consideration the saving aspect of that rental possibility for the per mishap (sub ran out) suddenly become F2P formerly and normally subbing player, and you will likely be more inclined to agree with my assessment, that such ingame storage rental surely prove incentive giving for subbing, seeing as the game, in itself, be so enjoyable and given that the subscription cost be in point of fact truly modest, especially in comparison to so many other online games (and even compared to offline games purchasing).

For this purpose you could maybe borrow additional packers from local tribes. In addition to paying with dappers, maybe bind the borrowing privilege/costs to the fame you must have with the particular tribe, which would add meaning to the tribes and the fame you have with them.
As it is now, you can have different limits of borrowable packers for F2P and P2P.

One thing to work out for this, would be the modalities of returning the packer. Will it just leave you after a certain amount of time (regardless if you're things are still on it) or do you need to return it, but what happens if you return it late or not at all?

that idea sounds good, Khaloaden ... as for returning late or not at all...

I can well imagine, that one's fame with that and perhaps with related tribes sink more or less rapidly depending upon length of time returned late,

Not returning at all could result in getting attacked at next (few??) encounter(s) and or even becoming considered an enemy till amends be made in height or more of the damage done to the tribal wealth or prestige etc.

Moreover, the animal, itself, could well be emotionally bound up with the tribe and thus waste away by and by (as in getting sickly and needing more and more feed to even stay alive so much longer away from its tribal and other animal family (as it were). Thus also would its carrying capacity shrink etc on up till its untimely demise if no corrective measure (return to the tribe) be carried out in time. That would make all too late a return in fact result in more and more cost and eventually also to actual loss of the cargo stored on it (randomly chosen? mats and loot first, then also equipment ) and so forth,

Or the animal simply gets up and leaves on its own to return willi-nilli to the tribe when the time alotted for its rental run out, no holds barred, no prevention possible, (similar to what happens when the subscription run out) so that the borrower be thus forced to return to the tribe to renew the rental and / or to remove or use up on site etc, the stored cargo. There are so many and varied modalities easily thought up as i see it. 8)

thus: great suggestion for lore compatibility, Khaloaden 8) ++

That was a direct response to a comment that has since been edited out.

I don't understand .... with me, 1 packer and all needed gear , I typically can handle 1350 mats .... that's a lot of crafts

Option A
1.  Dig 1350 mats
2.  Walk to Hawker
3.  Craft and sell
4.  Rinse and repeat
That's about all the time I wanna spoend digging / crtafting on one weekday ... on weekends, I'd sometimes do it twice.

Option B
1.  Dig 1350 mats
2.  Walk to Hawker
3.  Sell Mats at 9999% markup
4.  Rinse and repeat as many times as you want ... 10k ... 20k,
5.  Go to raw mat dealer,  craft / sell

Actually I don't say that, I wouldn't steal Gidget's tagline. ;)

I made no comments on rental storage; so I think you want to repond to someone else on this.  I don't see a need for rental storage as I have not yet ever been able to fill what I have.  So I wouldn't use it ... I don't see the point of storing 25 sets of HA as I can only use 1 at a time. 

I don't have any objection to others having it; Im not objecting to it in any way so Im not sure why your directed your comments to me ... I just can't fathom a way I could use it, makng me indifferent.

My only objection on storage is to hoarding ... this is a 0 sum game.  There's only so many sup mats available so the more that sits in storage unused, the less is available for everyone else.  If I go to SN's I dig enough mats to fill my immediate needs ... the conflict is less about getting what one needs and more about keeping it away from others.  More material storage would only exacerbate this.

I find these two statements contradictory ... 1st it's going to make more peeps sub and thn it gives a reason not to sub.


Or ... have a hawker in each tribe camp who pays for your mats based upon your fame.  We have vendor storage, it expires after a week.  You can track your expiration time w/ In Game apps.  Dig ya stuff... sell to hawker ... buy it back and craft, sell to hawker ... recover any craft ya want within a week. .

The biggest problm with storage is peeps keeping say QL 110 / 120 clopper parts for 6 years that have no value but they are kept because they say exe or sup on them. 

Every GL / HO has to deal with very well intentioned folks putting these in GH and then having to do spring cleaning.

i don't think anyone dragged this horse longer and farther then i have, and i'd highly doubt it will ever happen. i support the upgrading of guild hall and player apt storage 110%.
i belive i offered several ways it could be done, come to think of it, i offered tons of ideas, some have come to pass (amazing and cool, credit for making some kind of progress) and many others have not...

for player based storage directly linked to the toon: NO CHANGE
for player based sotrage of apartment/home: dapper buyable perm upgrade
for guild based storage: dapper buyable perm upgrade

anything less will not prevent alt creation for storage reasons; i know players that have accounts in the double digits, that's accounts, not toons (each account had 5 toons) and many of these accounts are strickly for storage.

any upgrade to storage of guild and apartment will not bennifit f2p players in anyway because that storage is not open to them anyway, they're limited to only a mount (unless that's changed, which i doubt).

as for horders: it's a game people, they (wg) won't make a merchant that sells all the mats (rendering hording and horders obsolete the moment they did should they create one someday)....

i digress and go silent again.