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#53 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Gidget
@Zatarga - I think the type of gamer that would enjoy that sort of gameplay already plays games like Rust either in addition to or (more likely) instead of Ryzom.
Could be.. and ? i don't see the point of your comment hm

Zatarga
we need to eliminate the “tagged” action and have all toons be attackable anywhere at anytime to emulate reality
lol.. that would be the hardcore mode Ryzom :P

Btw, if something like this is one day implemented, that would require a lot of simulated security for players.

First we would need to increase safe aura perimeter close to teleporter, and include strong "guardians" in the Cities.
That should react against the "evil" aura a player have on his fame, like some prime hunters.
But only in some part (the most important -> politic quarter) of the city.
Just to keep players interaction Heroic/Evil action/consequence mechanics.

If too much crime in a cities (like Citizen cannot kill the attacker, then Guardians pop and wipe them).

The more a player will kill "for free" the more he will get malus and penalty on his fame/aura/char
(getting chased by "good" players / Heroic, appearing on a map for everyone as a red skull etc)

Every actions should have consequence, bad or good, bad action should really restrict the gameplay somehow, more than good.

Outpost would be limited to GvG, and regions would be owned by Karavan or Kami cults once again and FvF,
With Spires and Temple/Totem that provide malus/bonus on your buff/stats depending your faction's.
Once a week or two, otherwise the regions are back to normal/controled, without the Totem/Temple game.

Then its time to stuff again, hunt and digs.
Random invasion could come at any moments, and have real action on the game !

If an invasion is not countered in a cities or zone, the zone is invaded with infinite spawn, unless the tunnel is filled/destroyed again.

This will force players to work in real league, all together's to prevent the kittins menace, and will pause the fight between factions/guilds a bit.

Players would encounter a world-boss if the invasion aren't stopped, or by events - which would require the full server to kill it (a Kittin queen in the KL ? sure.)

A way to pex faster should be introduced, maybe with catalyzer for master (available only via OP)
That will force players to regroup into strong guilde, and fight together for a common guild/faction goals.

etc etc.. dream on dream on :)

(and btw, most of the idea are just The Saga of Ryzom, how it should have been from start, and planned in the code before bankrupt :sadface:)

Zuletzt geändert von Revvy (vor 6 Monaten)

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#54 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Gidget
@Zatarga - I think the type of gamer that would enjoy that sort of gameplay already plays games like Rust either in addition to or (more likely) instead of Ryzom.

I gotta agree with Gidget ... Having started playing 15 years ago ... it was an era when WoW was the dominant force in the MMO arena and folks played Ryzom because "It was not WoW". When PvP was 1st introduced we immediately lost a a huge % of our player base (I have been tracking no of subs long time). The server ate my 1st toon and I was locked out of Ryzome for a few months ... Ya think I named my toon FF ? That was more of a gentle dig to the staff "Hey fix my main toon so i can get him back in game and get rid of this silly name".

There came a time when the player base on Ari decided with no change in game mechanics, that they were going to allow each player to play their own game.

Everybody knew each other and there wee xxx people who PvP'd and yyy people who didn't and zzz people who flip flopped back and forth. This period is where Ryzom peaked subs wise.

So lets say we have xx players why want all out PvP and yy players who want no part of it. If the model is everybody gets to play like Brad Marchan, then the yy players are gone. (If ya don't know who BM is watch the video.
https://nypost.com/2019/05/01/bruins-brad-marchand-punches-scott- harrington-in-back-of-head/

If the model is everyone has to be a care bear, then ya gonna lose xx.

Okay, it took me a while to get here but here's the point. Lets say that one of those is 40% of the total and the other is 60% ... and the game mechanics are changed to favor the 60 %. Can the game sustain itself with just 350 subscriptions ? ... that's my concern. If ya like it here and ya want Atys to exist, I don't see how reducing the population is conducive to that goal.

And frankly. getting back to what Gidget said ... there's a lotta games out there that do the PvP thing that are "fresher" (came out in this decade)and have a better hold on that market segment.

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#55 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Ok, this thread is going to circle around aimlessly, due to it having quite an open-ended question.I would separate two ideas here:

- PvP, as a concept, can definitely be roleplay. Or rather, roleplay is channeled and performed through violent means, e.g. PvP. The lore is clearly not against it, on the contrary, homins have been shown to be quite xenophobic and war-like several times in the past. Killing someone for good, or damaging them until they can't get up (coma) should be a favorite pastime on the planet.

- PvP gets murky in the practical implementation. The game allows great freedom in attacking homins -- tagged pvp, for example, allows you to attack almost anyone except guild members. As usual, roleplayers will have an issue when killed by someone who is clearly doing things with no RP reason, just because the mechanics allow it. That's the crux of the issue.

Does this answer the question? I believe it does. Does it help? No, because there is not way to restrict PvP mechanically while still leaving options on the table for all the roleplay combinations where it might be needed / useful.

Most games with lots of players solve this issue by having separate servers for PVE and PVP, because the two crowds are quite different. Obviously Ryzom cannot afford it, so instead we get this unhappy recipe where we *can* kill each other, but people will frown really really strong at you if you do it in the "wrong" way. In turn, that just shuts PvP down as an option, except in highly controlled scenarios (outposts, supernodes etc).

That would be all.

3 mal geändert | Zuletzt geändert von Laoviel (vor 5 Monaten)

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Laoviel, officer of Rift Walkers

#56 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Laoviel
- PvP gets murky in the practical implementation. The game allows great freedom in attacking homins -- tagged pvp, for example, allows you to attack almost anyone except guild members. As usual, roleplayers will have an issue when killed by someone who is clearly doing things with no RP reason, just because the mechanics allow it. That's the crux of the issue.

No, being killed by someone killing people without RP reasons is not the problem (in fact, even intra-faction kill could make sense).
The problem is the degree of freedom given to players which allow them to not follow basic principles. (and for me gameplay should help the player to play his char the right way).

#57 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Sinvaders
...and for me gameplay should help the player to play his char the right way...

As well as guilds (and factions) should teach own users. And not recruit on Silan those who know nothing. It is a pity to meet a homin who don't even know what allegiance is his guild.

#58 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Sinvaders
Laoviel
- PvP gets murky in the practical implementation. The game allows great freedom in attacking homins -- tagged pvp, for example, allows you to attack almost anyone except guild members. As usual, roleplayers will have an issue when killed by someone who is clearly doing things with no RP reason, just because the mechanics allow it. That's the crux of the issue.

No, being killed by someone killing people without RP reasons is not the problem (in fact, even intra-faction kill could make sense).
The problem is the degree of freedom given to players which allow them to not follow basic principles. (and for me gameplay should help the player to play his char the right way).

There is no "right way" to play the game.

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Luminatrix

Explorer, storyteller, universalist, fighter for freedom and equality.

"Without contraries, there is no progression" - William Blake

#59 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Luminatrix
Sinvaders
Laoviel
- PvP gets murky in the practical implementation. The game allows great freedom in attacking homins -- tagged pvp, for example, allows you to attack almost anyone except guild members. As usual, roleplayers will have an issue when killed by someone who is clearly doing things with no RP reason, just because the mechanics allow it. That's the crux of the issue.

No, being killed by someone killing people without RP reasons is not the problem (in fact, even intra-faction kill could make sense).
The problem is the degree of freedom given to players which allow them to not follow basic principles. (and for me gameplay should help the player to play his char the right way).

There is no "right way" to play the game.

That probably why we have less than 200 players max on the server a week. Not simultaneous ofc.
And at NA time, or night EU all the capitals and regions are empty.

2 mal geändert | Zuletzt geändert von Revvy (vor 5 Monaten)

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#60 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Sinvaders
No, being killed by someone killing people without RP reasons is not the problem (in fact, even intra-faction kill could make sense).
The problem is the degree of freedom given to players which allow them to not follow basic principles. (and for me gameplay should help the player to play his char the right way).

Not following basic principles? By saying that the problem is freedom, you blatantly attack what many consider a basic principle. I feel that the real problem is that some people don't like having their core beliefs insulted and demeaned the way they constantly are by those who refuse to respect those that play in any way other than strict fundamentalist adherence to lore while perma-tagged.

The right way? That sounds pretty self-entitled. Would you like me tell you how to do things, or would you feel the same way I do about it? How about if you just try respecting those who are different? I try to, but it's hard to respect those that want the world altered to punish me for simply not being exactly like them.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#61 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

I think Gidget, you misunderstand what I am saying by "basic principles" and by "right way". Maybe I choose my wording wrongly.

I'm not saying that anyone is playing wrong or not (it's a game and the game is allowing you to do what you want). But this degree of freedom has allowed players to bring the game at a level where being a faction just means: what do you prefer as teleport system?. And this to me is wrong because it has killed the way we "should" (notice the ") interact with each others (in-game not OOC).
That's my point, gameplay restriction can guide players. You can summarize it by: it can give guidelines to players, simple as that.


When you say, " I feel that the real problem is that some people don't like having their core beliefs insulted" -> No body likes to have his own belief insulted, not you not me not many others players in this game.

But just keep in mind, the title of the thread is "Is PVP RP?" ... and to me players need help to make it RP, gameplay restriction (that's what I meant by "basic principles") is a way to do it (not the only one).

If you need some clarifications with what I'm saying, do not hesitate to ask. I'm not as nasty as you seem to think :)

#62 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Sinvaders
I think Gidget, you misunderstand what I am saying by "basic principles" and by "right way". Maybe I choose my wording wrongly.
I know you well enough by now that I figured that was the case. But please be aware that others may not give you that benefit of a doubt. And if others come on too strong, I am unlikely to extend the same courtesy to them that I do to you.
Sinvaders
I'm not saying that anyone is playing wrong or not (it's a game and the game is allowing you to do what you want). But this degree of freedom has allowed players to bring the game at a level where being a faction just means: what do you prefer as teleport system?.
It's not quite that simple. As was touched on in another thread a while back, the old factions really don't mean what they once did because the real factional lines are no longer where the lines were many years ago. Just as Earth has evolved, Atys has also evolved to where traditional lines get blurry or irrelevant. That's not the say that there are no longer factions, simply that they've been redefined in ways that the mechanics (and many "traditionalist" players) do not officially recognize.
Sinvaders
And this to me is wrong because it has killed the way we "should" (notice the ") interact with each others (in-game not OOC).
And to many others, the old lines were wrong, which is why they are ignored/circumvented as much as possible and complained about where they become annoying.
Sinvaders
That's my point, gameplay restriction can guide players. You can summarize it by: it can give guidelines to players, simple as that.
They can if they make sense. But when restrictions seem arbitrary, they cross the line from "guidance" to "obstacle" pretty quick. While some may see obstacles as something to be overcome, some of us see them as something to be eliminated. If you want restrictions that provide guidance, don't make restrictions that tons of people want to destroy; take a lesson from Aikido and make restrictions that have a natural flow.
Sinvaders
But just keep in mind, the title of the thread is "Is PVP RP?" ... and to me players need help to make it RP, gameplay restriction (that's what I meant by "basic principles") is a way to do it (not the only one).
I think that if you need that sort of restriction then there is a grave, fundamental flaw elsewhere that needs to be remedied first. To my mind, a bad solution to a problem that didn't need to exist in the first place is, in many ways, worse than the original problem that required a solution in the first place.

Take what I said above, and ponder what would happen if the old lines were redrawn to more closely mirror the actual current state of Atys. Lack of reverence for higher powers is not just for Rangers and Marauders; many Kami/Karavan are not exactly devout. And Marauders do not have a monopoly on the "Might makes right!" philosophy either. If the lines are in places that make sense, then you wont' need artificial restrictions; it will be self-governing. And when you have homins with strong, deep differences of opinion, you're more likely to the sort of conflict that results in combat than if you have like-minded homins that just happen to use different TP networks. Imagine, RP-related reasons to pull weapons on each other!

I'm not saying it'd be easy to do and do right, but it'd be a lot better than the stifling stagnation we have now.
Sinvaders
If you need some clarifications with what I'm saying, do not hesitate to ask. I'm not as nasty as you seem to think :)
I'm usually not as nasty as some seem to think either, but when I feel people are trying to push me and those like me out of the game, I can get a little..... cranky. And no, I think of you as one of the more pleasant people who I've ever disagreed with, but there are enough who share your views who have behaved poorly that it's affected how I deal with folks.

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Do not assume that you speak for all just because you are the loudest voice; there are many who disagree that simply have no desire to waste words on you.

#63 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

PvP is RP.
Storytelling is RP.
Fighting Kitins is RP.
Crafting weapons is RP.
Harvesting materials is RP.

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Kaetemi

#64 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Real Life = RP

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#65 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Fyrosfreddy
Real Life = RP

FF for the win!

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#66 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

Kaetemi
PvP is RP.
Storytelling is RP.
Fighting Kitins is RP.
Crafting weapons is RP.
Harvesting materials is RP.

If you replace is with can be, I would agree completely.

However, none of those activities are inherently roleplay. All of them can be, and can be incredibly detailed roleplay if the player is willing to put in the effort.

My two dappers worth

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Remembering Tyneetryk
Phaedreas Tears - 15 years old and first(*) of true neutral guilds in Atys.
(*) This statement is contested, but we are certainly the longest lasting.
<clowns | me & you | jokers>

#67 Melden | Zitieren[en] 

They're roles that are being played and experienced.

If you want details, there's storytelling.

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Kaetemi
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