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#46 Доклад | Цитировать[en] 

Suboxide (atys)
well maximus yes thats how mara was played and portraid on your server maybe on our server EVENT TEAM as Akilla cinder Ash Storm herself was telling us a way more moderate point of view. Maybe they addapted to the ppl on aristople that went mara who knows. But mara where not portraied as being against all. Last orders we got 1 year before server merge (when I heard half ari event team was fired without knowing why) was that we should go out in public and talk to other homins in civ/factions about how they are lied about and free them from their chackless and bring them to our camp to be shown what freedom means. (after that meeting we never saw akilla, event team or anything mara related again).

To us the event team played out that we the player mara where converts and 'unbrainwashed' (my words not event team) that had to make the camps ready and find safe lands to build the free mara city in. And we where told over and over by mara event team civs din't want us in their land and hated mara for coming back. Being seen as savages and civ govs feeling we would over run their city's with the millions of homins still trapped down there => you know not enough food for all in new lands and such.

Well, obviously if she's recruiting ppl she will say that the mara faction is the bestest thing on Atys and that the other power are just liers. You don't have to take everything at face value ! :-) Having someone says something does not mean it's true. E.g. if my character voices an opinion, it does not mean it is the TRUTH. Every character is bound to spin things his way, isn't he ?

Also, how would you explain then that the Maraudeurs (as NPCs) are bandits and attacking hominity ?
There were quite a few maraudeur invastions a few years back. Why would they kill the homins if the powers are the bad guys ? Looks pretty fishy to me.

On Aniro, Akilia called the Maraudeurs and said they would survive on their own, and not take the road of exodus. They basically had the choice of staying with homins or go and run 'wild'. They chose to run wild.

Last edited by Maximus (5 лет спустя)

#47 Доклад | Цитировать[fr] 

Djaimse (atys)
... Mais la fusion des serveur a fait changer les choses, et le RP maintenant ne s'applique que lors des moments RP". C'est comme ça, soit on reste comme avant, et globalement, on ne joue presque plus, par manque de participants, soit on s'adapte, et on change ...

Soit on part.

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Auparavant Ki'gan, dit le Dévoreur d'Espoir. Aujourd'hui, sous couvert de troubles dissociatifs de la personnalité, il se fait appeler Vao, et dit avoir rompu avec son passé terroriste. Mais qui croire ? Le monstre ou le fou ?

Previously Ki'gan, the Devourer of Hope. Today, under the guise of dissociative personality disorders, he calls himself Vao, and says he has broken with his terrorist past. But who should we believe? The monster or the madman?

#48 Доклад | Цитировать[de] 

Bitttymacod (atys)
Ummm... Bina? As far as we can tell from ancient records, Elias Tryton was a Karavan. (Some Trykers believe even that he was married to Jena.) He is hated by the Karavan because he advocated that homins should share in their knowledge, and for that he was declared apostate. The Kami hate him because he is Karavan.

From the Lore I know, Elias is clearly not "a Karavan". He is a personality of unknown descent to the homins, with abilities making him an equal to Jena and Ma Duk rather than to the Kamis or the Karavan. He was able to create gates where homins as well as Kami and Karavan were able to step through without any limits of space and time. Even Elyssa, the leader of the Guild of Elias, who shortly appeared during the Temple Wars, and then next time before the Exodus during the Second Great Swarming, was in possession of powers at least comparable to Karavan and Kami.

There are rumours that Elias was even able to connect to completely different worlds, and more powerful than Jena under this respect - this rumour has never been proven. Equally unproven are rumours that he had a liaison to Jena (and even a son existed). Nobody knows, and nobody possibly ever will know.

In our history (Leanon), Elias appeared once in person before a secret assembly of guild leaders, teleported on top of Frahar Towers by his powers. I personally knew and interviewed two witnesses of this event, one of them ist still among us. So I have to acknowledge his existence, while I never saw neither Jena nor Ma Duk. Though I admit not few evidence for their existence, I still reserve the merit of doubt (while I actively disbelieve into the existence of the dragon, a concept I perceive and confirm at best as symbolic).

Trytonism as a religious or philosophic concept, as far as I learnt about, was about consequent if not radical hominism while rejecting both religions blaming them for selfish and dishonest motives in their conduct towards homins.

Me, not being a Trytonist, am not going that far. I am not hostile to religions, and concede that they have done much good to hominity, and that their teachings contain beauty and wisdom. Nevertheless, I can't but concede that conspicions about dubious motives of both churches are not completely unfounded, and accusations against one another to be profoundly evil are hypocritic and plain wrong. That is why I could never join any of them. And much more the ruthless and cruel prosecution of followers of Elias are highly repulsive and demonstrate that the power of any clerics and fanatic followers must be contained.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#49 Доклад | Цитировать[en] 

++1 Daomei :))

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Binarabi
This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. (Bill Hicks)

#50 Доклад | Цитировать[de] 

Daomei (atys)
Trytonism as a religious or philosophic concept, as far as I learnt about, was about consequent if not radical hominism while rejecting both religions blaming them for selfish and dishonest motives in their conduct towards homins.

Well, as far as Leanon is concerned (while most likely not on the other servers, which had a better balance between the religions back then), during the Temple Wars Tryton called his followers to arms to fight with the Karavaneer agains the Kamists to "keep the balance" between religions instead of keeping his followers out of the war. So Tryton's philosophy is quite able to take a radical course, and does not shy away from fighting other homins - which is at least an eccentric variation of hominism.

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#51 Доклад | Цитировать[de] 

The Temple Wars were long before my appearance on the bark. But from the archives I learnt that Tryton had warned that the total victory of one of the sides during the wars would lead to the destruction of Atys and of all of hominity. That was the reason why he appealed to his followers to support the inferior side in order to keep the balance. That may contradict a strictly pacifist stance, one neither of the religions ever took.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#52 Доклад | Цитировать[en] 

Maxxye (atys)
So by "we" you mean Aris'/Leanon and "you" Aniro right ? People tried to make efforts but seeing that nothing can be done just stopped to try and left, you liked see "french" player quit the game because it was impossible to make things match ?

I would love to know exactly what efforts the French players made with regards to their RP following the merge. And this may sound sarcastic (and is partly intended as so but partially I am genuinely interested to know more about this).

What I experienced personally was them attempting to bully and threaten.
What I continue to see is very little if any compromise.
Please understand why I have taken it upon myself to discuss this matter despite it not directly affecting me: RPers, in my opinion, continue to be in positions of power where they can implement things that affect the gameplay of non-RPers with the support of higher powers. Forget even the Tryker Fair, theres now the plans for only nations to own outposts in their lands... we'll that would stop me from declaring on a non-Forest based OP.............. I didn't bloody vote on this - if I don't get involved and RP how else am I going to get my voice heard if not on forum threads such as this!

To go back to the point you attempted to make and I replied to, are you saying that the French Kara's effort is to be applauded in the example I gave?
The chose to act towards us in the way they did.

All that I, along with others, did was to stand up and make our voices be heard. I did so because it was something that was directly affecting me. Those French Kara players who left the game did so because they CHOSE to. I will not give ANYONE the pleasure of thinking for a single second that I feel in any way guilty for them leaving the game. So lets clear that up.

All I have tried to say in my posts is that:

1. In my humble opinion, the real perpetrators here are the Devs and Event Team and the powers that be who failed to consider the possible post-merge issues which could arise with the different approaches regarding RP and Lore in the servers. This has, in my opinion, cause significant server wide issues between players - resentment and animosity. They didn't address this when they should have and even Tamarea's response, to me, was completely void of consideration of Ari RP. They have basically left us to stew and here we are boiling with emotions.

2. The right to free will that we have to play as we wish is what allows us to make choices and decisions as we want to. RP allows for ingenuity and the freedom to come up with a million and one RP reasons for us to compromise IF we chose to. And I like to think that we can.

3. (The main one I am the most happy about infact looking at the recent posts - I was unable to post this earlier despite writing it hours ago...) To come together to share our experiences because only by doing so will we be able to understand why we all play the way that we do. I would hope that in my previous posts, I've been able to show you a little of why I have the opinions I do.

Last edited by Elvanae (5 лет спустя)

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#53 Доклад | Цитировать[en] 

Since that reply was a reply for another player's saying , taking it for you is a bit out of context.
But, yes, i think "french" karas/maras/kamis had to change their way to play because of Aris'/Leanon's way to play, adapt to them or play alone and be treaten. I don't say french are the best in anyway they did mistake as the other communities did theirs
And btw, for the french players who left, they weren't only karavans but kamis and marauders too...

I was kara follower before and i did some efforts trying to play with your way to play by closing eyes ( because i didn't wanted to lose my RP but didn't wanted to play only with french players either), so you could play as you wanted even if it annoyed me. I didn't lost my RP because of that.

So saying WE ( french players because they are all bad and do nothing to make Atys life a dreamland ) do/did no efforts, i just a huge lie.

#54 Доклад | Цитировать[en] 

great post elvenae, this should actually be posted directly to the ryzom team in my opinion.

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Adaptation from "I have a dream" by "Martin Luther King"
I have a dream that one day this world will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all homin are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the hills of Fairhaven the sons of former homins left behind and the sons of former homins that were lucky enough to be rescued will be able to sit down together at a campfire of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the Matis, a state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my 64 little guildies will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin or the religion they follow but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.

#55 Доклад | Цитировать[en] 

Maxxye (atys)
Since that reply was a reply for another player's saying , taking it for you is a bit out of context.

I dont think I did take it out of context, the meaning of it is plain and clear. Did you enjoy seeing "French" players leave was what they asked, because the latter put in so much effort that the only thing left to do was to leave the game.......
Maxxye (atys)
But, yes, i think "french" karas/maras/kamis had to change their way to play because of Aris'/Leanon's way to play, adapt to them or play alone and be treaten. I don't say french are the best in anyway they did mistake as the other communities did theirs
And btw, for the french players who left, they weren't only karavans but kamis and marauders too...


I was kara follower before and i did some efforts trying to play with your way to play by closing eyes ( because i didn't wanted to lose my RP but didn't wanted to play only with french players either), so you could play as you wanted even if it annoyed me. I didn't lost my RP because of that.

So saying WE ( french players because they are all bad and do nothing to make Atys life a dreamland ) do/did no efforts, i just a huge lie.

That is not what I was trying to say at all.

I tried to be as clear as possible in that last post. I gave you a specific example of one of my earliest experiences post-merge with RP. And sadly it was a very negative experience for me. Maybe you are not aware that my real-life partner is Virg, who back then was a Kami and I was a Kara... someone is telling me I can have no interraction with him in game... now you do the maths... and yes I made players aware of this because sometimes these things blew up in Kara chat where certain players would note that I was training with him...

Anyways, it was MY own personal experience that I wanted to share so you can understand that, unfortunately I do not have very many, if any, positive experiences with RPers.

I never said you didn't put in effort at all, La Firm continues to be a part of the Karavan faction and I have nothing but respect for the guild's leaders. They did not join us in battle last time because of the Marauders but they still interract with us so we know them and do activities with them. 

We still blame eachoher that we have "faults" but I made it clear in my post, we are a product of the failure of the Devs to sort this out for the merge. And yes, we are likely to still have some  RPers who have strict beliefs but if you don't compromise here and there then sadly people will leave the game, RPers and non-RPers. You can be smart enough to come up with something which in terms of RP can try to appease as many players as possible.

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#56 Доклад | Цитировать[en] 

Elvanae,

While I agree to much you wrote (though also to a lot Maxxye wrote), I definitely disagree to blaming the Devs or the event team.

As to the Devs: After the merge, even before when having changed the original plan to axe all skills on demand of the community, they were drowning in work. The good decision to preserve the skills (which saved Ryzom in my opinion) left them with a lot of additional work unifying the three shards. After the merge, a lot of new, unexpected bugs appeared. The dev team is tiny, and what they achieved during the last years is a lot. I fail to see that they had any minute free to meddle into community issues.

As to the CSR and ET: They are volunteers, players like us all. The fusion posed a challenge and lots of workload as well, moreover some of them left before or short after the fusion. I recall one feedback meeting with a german event guide where the players complained that there were - at least for the language community - practically no events comparably to the old times. The event guide then revealed that the whole team was caught in organizational work such as translations, inter-community cooperation etc., where the Germans had an overproportional workload because more of them were in mastery of English and French than vice versa. She hated not to have been able to create nice events due to these circumstances much less to even play her own player character a single time.

And, to say that, while changing or even fixing the game, much more creating and guiding events etc. may be and probably are satisfying even if a burden of work, meddling into players' quarrels is possibly the most frustrating and unsatisfactory thing a developer or admin may be confronted with. Personally, I always hated to have to interfere and to mollify conflicts between my children, that is among the worst in education though necessary here and then. But we are not the children of Devs and CSR, though some used to behave like spoiled brats at times.

What I want to say: we are the ones who have to settle our conflicts inside the community in the first place. We may appeal to event team, CSR, or developers as a last resort, and hope for adequate assistance. The work to be done remains with us, anyway.

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Daomei die Streunerin - religionsneutral, zivilisationsneutral, gildenneutral

#57 Доклад | Цитировать[en] 

I wholeheartedly agree with your last comment, because it is the only thing we can do to move forwards.

The rest of your post, to me, was excuses for the Devs, and  I dont mean that in a nasty way. Lets accept they didn't do what they should have, lets accept they struggled and had a lot of work to do to achieve many other things (I highly respect them for the work they did do) and lets accept that we need to stop taking chunks out of eachother (most importantly) because the reality is, for me, it is not our faults that we played in the manner we did on the different servers and now in the small community that we are, lets understand and communicate and be mature enough to compromise and discuss things.

Anyways, I feel that I am only repeating over and over the same things which I hope will actually get through to some people and sorry to the rest of you that read the same post in different words! lol

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#58 Доклад | Цитировать[fr] 

approuve de la tête

your right....

Last edited by Aelyne (5 лет спустя)

#59 Доклад | Цитировать[en] 

once more i'll say this: "let's put the sand back in the sandbox"

ok, so ryzom has RP, and each player is able to do and act out RP as they see fit. i would like to remind everyone that ryzom was made as a PvE game, and that rp was to help the progression of the story of atys.
the fact that each server had a different progression from the base story that all 3 server shared means that now we have 3 truths of the histories of atys. because of this confused history, ANY rp that i personally do will have nothing to do with either the lore or the histories because there is not a single one to base off. my personal rp has nothing to do with any one faction or group, but has something to do with ALL of them at once. (keyword: upper branches)

it seams to me that because group a does X in rp they get a real physical change in the game related to their RP. if this doesn't fit in perfectly with EVERYONE else's rp then there should be no changes to the physical game that we all play. many of us that do not RP more then a little bit (or not at all) should not suffer changes that are one sided for a group of rp's without consideration of the impact on non-rp's or those that rp a different way.

when i thought up my ideas for the "upper branches" i spent much time speaking with different players of all walks of atys life, and tried to think of everyone. the mara were told that one day they would have a city that was welcoming of mara, upper branches have towns where all homins (other then npc bandits) are welcome. there was talk of the trytionist (sorry if spelled wrong) and rangers coming along in the future and so i sought out players that had chosen these possible paths of play. i found a german guild that was already following trytionist ways, and some players that were also seeking this line; from them i learned what i could and tried to keep that in mind as i wrote the ideas and stories. i sought out players that were following the ranger ways, and spoke with them, again learning about them. after some time doing research i finally started to put together the ideas of the upper branches, trying very hard to include something about every group known on atys and even left it open for future additions with a few choice words "not yet known". i'll not keep ranting about this, it's all posted on the forums, both the ideas and the stories to support them.

if RP is the path we must take to get things done, my now over one rl year project still has no word on when or if it will even be considered. it seams that only the most selfish RP is rewarded and the RP that could be beneficial to the entire server is of no merit. anyone that wants to try and help translate the ideas and/or stories is welcome to, and if the person(s) wanting to can speak english i'll be happy to use voice chat (teamspeak3) to help with it.

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Remickla (atys)
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#60 Доклад | Цитировать[de] 

Talkirc (atys)
it seams that only the most selfish RP is rewarded and the RP that could be beneficial to the entire server is of no merit.

You somehow lost me here. What kind of actual "reward" does RP have? You gain no riches from it, nor do you (usally) have any influence on the development of a story. The gain you get is the satisfaction of playing a character who, ideally, gives the impression of a living and breathing being played by observing the rules the game sets, straining them only so lightly that you leave the cardboard setting and make them round and believable. Respecting the borders, though, is the great challenge, I think.

Having said that, I see that we slipped into another of those discussions where the original point made seems to be by now buried somewhere under it. But probably it's just me who got lost here. Originally it was the question if the Marauders are allowed to have a stall at the Tryker fair, right? For from what I understood they are not hindered to appear there and buy stuff from other stalls. The fair, I think, will not take place in the town but outside, so at least that shouldn't be a problem (unless the Taliari decided to have it heavily guarded, but I can't imagine why they should have). Now we could discuss how a marauder could be identified in the first place (not counting, say, Akilia, Melkiar, or Muang, (in-)famous individuals and/or leaders). I see quite a few possibilities here. It might me far more complicated if it was, say, a Fyros Fair and Matis would not be allowed there, or vice versa - and that situation is quite possible, if not to expect.

Taking a larger view on the Marauders as such, I do see that there's much to wish for, like trainers and merchants in their camp etc., and the fact that there are few, if at all, marauder-based events (and I very much feel with them there; I loathed the event-less time for Matis until we sort of highjacked the "botanic solution" story, which was originally only a Zorai plot). The Kitin Study Group, which sprang from it, is, of course, a player project.

Sorry if I missed the target here, but I'm tired and half on the run to the airport ...

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