English

In fact the claims are unconvincing for a simple reason. In all time since these allegations have come up, I have been patrolling the realms for a couple of reasons, boss spotting not among them anymore(I explained why). Inevitably I came and come across a lot of spots (in fact, most of them on surface and a couple of them in PR) where bosses may spawn, among them not too few of the "important" ones.

Now, when assuming that bosses are spotted by swarms of campers all time, I would have necessarily stumbled over at least a couple of them. In fact, I did not meet any. Instead, I even stumbled about a couple of bosses.

The conclusion is simple and evident: When campers are not there, they cannot spot bosses. In other words: there have not been any campers at many of the usual boss spots (and I am speaking of 250 and 200 regions) for long periods.

Maybe there is some camper somewhere, here and then. But it is simply not the case that swarms of alts, especially makeshift f2p alts, are holding boss spots under close surveillance. These campers are widely a myth.

And nobody so far has provided evidence for such widespread camping. In fact two players have admitted to have camped tree sites with their main and/or subbed alt character. Not that I consider that a particularly good idea, but indeed, I know about not too few players from other guilds who spotted and killed trees, though, and even got some of the most wanted (only once dropping) objects. So even the complaint that by such practices others were effectively denied access to that resource does not hold much water. Anyway, there is nearly a year to rethink tree locations and spawn times, now.

Again, I would like to see the hysteria, suspicion, and blame game to cool down.

Just to throw this in the mix : couple months ago Azad was waiting for Manda, needing pelvis for more than 1 weapon. So he sat and waited in the Gibbads camp. Manda spawns, he calls us to help kill .. but 1 minute later another group pops online and gets the kill before we could assemble. The incident has repeated a few times in a row, until we were considering to screenshot and report the players.

Similarly, I've seen alts popping online and dissapearing again immediately near the Master Florist, with the only reason I can think of being to farm the Lucky Flowers.

You don't have to keep an alt online all the time in order to scout, and in fact doing that risks getting them killed. Popping them online from time to time is more efficient. Not saying it happens with bosses because I haven't witnessed it, but I can *definitely* imagine it as a possibility.

Oh my Ma-Duk you found a few bosses? This completely proves me wrong!

I never said camping with alts will get 100% of all bosses. The majority of people camping will only camp the most important bosses.

I also never said there are swarms of campers thanks for the miss-quote there. What I did say is that camping with alts is a viscous circle and causes more people to camp with alts as was clearly visible with the trees. As people doing regular boss checks find less and less due to alts they may turn to using alts themselves or give up entirely.

Problem with nameds is that they still spawn after fixed time. Therefore someone may set up a timer and pop in at respawn time. Change for that is underway according to the devs.

Periodical login and logout would be a possibility, sure, but I doubt that it is taking place at boss locations at the moment. But that is very hard to prove or disprove, moreover, such practice would not be camping in the strict sense.

It is doubtful whether such a practice would be effective, anyway. It would work only when you would set up a relatively short login interval. Otherwise you would risk to miss an appearance, only logging in to see a party already gathered around a boss, or even the dead boss, or nothing altogether. And please, mind what it would mean to monitor only, say 5 bosses, 15 locations, logging in and out a client in a say 15minute interval, 1 login per minute, everytime starting a new client. I think such a person would be in the nuthouse before having caught the first boss.

You doubt its taking place? How very scientific of you. I suppose seeing as you are a "scientifically educated woman" I should take your word for it.

Yes Virg, doubt is one of the primary sources of scientific progress, dissecting belief and wishful thinking. It is a recommendable practice to doubt the own premises in particular. I try to weigh any argument and proposal before judging about it. So please specify what was unscientific with my reasoning.

People are posting saying they have seen campers. This is definite. You disagree with them and say you "doubt" it happens. A definite vs a doubt. I am sure you must have a quote or two about that?

Ok. Tell me how you do tell a camper from an idler. And tell me why so many boss spots are free from both, campers and idlers, though a camping epidemic is alleged.

I do not doubt that somebody says to have seen a camper, in most cases he may have seen somebody, in some of them his suspicion may have been founded while in others not. In many cases the camper spotting may even have been hearsay. There are studies about propagation of rumours. In this case much words are made around very thin evidence.

A word to Elvanae about my naivity: Yes I believe that the waste majority of all players, no matter whether Kami, Kara, Neutrals, or Marauders, whether Asylum, SA, Seve Noire, or any other, are good-willing, love the game and hate cheating and unfairness. And that is the base one should work along, not starting blame games and pillory, inciting hatred and resentment, and splitting along guild or alliance lines.

People log alt campers on and off when they want to check a boss.. Have you actually been listening to a word anyone says? People have said this many many times.

How do you prove that allegation? I did not see such popping up and down players around boss locations during my patrols, and I look at people I meet, in every region, I frequently do /who (have a macro for).

I did not deny the technical possibility of such, but it would only work efficiently with heavy scripting and botting, and would not even be camping in a strict sense. Botting and scripting are already illegal, no reason to emphasize camping as outlawing camping would not change anything under respect of such practice.

There is such a thing as trust you seem incapable of. Such as trusting many people who have even seen alts log on and off right in front of them. You don't ever check all the boss spawns so I won't expect you to have seen alts. Stop harping on about how you have ever seen any alts camping when you never actually go check boss spawns its getting tiring.

Why does such a thing need scripting? You can log on 4 characters easily at the same time with minimal effort. You can do this quite easily with 12 alts and check the 3 regions most important to you within 5minutes.

Problem with trust is it can't be scientifically proven, a bit like faith.

Don't know about now, when boss camping it was more than just one person from a guild involved and several bosses where being watched for.

Faith is more dependent on a belief that something is real rather than seeing it first hand.

Is trust really that much different?

You trust someone under the belief that they're trust worthy. The difference is that trust is formed from what you know about someone or what you believe you know about someone, you can easily get it wrong.

Although we are straying from the topic now.

At next kami meeting Virg we need the input from other guilds so it is not just a small number arguing stuff with Daomei.
Homins who are camping and feel they have been forced into this in order to get a "favoured" boss have seen the other campers
It is like Spetty said some time ago - all guilds end up placing campers about to even the playing field or the system of how bosses spawn gets vahnged and I have no idea at all about how difficult that is
Is we speak as a collective voice we can stop getting bogged down in one homin's view