Let me start off by saying that this thread should not, in my opinion, be called Marauders. I will endeavour to explain this further because I feel strongly that this is not simply about Marauders, but goes above and beyond simply discussing the Tryker Fair.
With all due respect Tamarea and the animation team, I can understand the delicate position you are in. Despite this, I will be so bold as to say that your response was, in my humble opinion, void of any consideration of the gameplay in Arispotle.
And why should it be? Well, we were all forced together from different servers in the merge out of necessity. Along with us and our empty inventories and GHs, we brought our own Lore and our own individual approaches to gameplay and RP. And it is you guys, up there, looking down on us all that should be more than well aware and should have anticipated clashes in interpretation of the Lore and its implementation in game. You failed to combine the developments of the Lore of different servers in a coherent manner so as to avoid clashes. I can accept that it was probably easier for you to leave it in our hands, but the result is that there is a great deal of animosity between different server players who feel strongly that THEIR approach is the correct approach. This, in my opinion, could have been avoided.
You said:
A very wise thing to say. In theory its very simple and common sense. In practice, I will give you a specific example of where I was not respected as Elvanae from Arispotle:
- A number of French Karavan players/guilds approached the other karavan, post-merge, to say that we are not permitted from having contact with Kami players or trading with them etc (some of whom are long time friends from Ari) and if continued to do so, they would not share OP mats (back when we had mats worth sharing) and would not support the guilds who did this.
I'm not sure what you would say about that. My own personal opinion is that that particular scenario was basically bullying and threatening to those players who just wanted to interract with their friends and saw it as their right to be able to do so. On the other hand, the french players were clearly very strict on RP. The point of this is to show that these people could be argued to merely be observing RP rules. On the other hand, it was in practice, an attempt to bully us into changing our gameplay and the significant point here is, that they were in fact in a position of power to do so since they actually owned Outposts.
I feel strongly that there are major issues that we face now in this merged server. What time has shown is that we are still struggling to engage with one another in a harmonious way in order that we all enjoy the game as we used to pre-merge. But pre-merger days are gone and we need to adapt to this. All the players from the servers need to, not just Ari with their lenient RPing.
I would like to think that, IF THEY WANTED TO, RPers could find any number of reasons to allow the Marauders, in this situation, to participate in the Fair. Virg did, indeed, attempt to approach the situation from an RP perspective in previous forum posts.
Clearly, the strict RPers do not want to compromise. They do not take into consideration the histories from thi Ari server. They say that a lenient Ari RP gameplay will kill the game because they threaten to leave. And I will be shot down for saying this, these RPers are getting the full support from people who really should be impartial.
Tamarea (atys)
[OOC] Dear players,
The Animation Team must intervene on this delicate matter to remind you of some essential elements:
Importance of mutual respect
RP and non-RP players share the same server. Certainly there approach of the game is different, but this is not an unsurmountable problem if everyone makes an effort. When a matter of concern presents itself, if you do not find a solution by talking quietly together, then we advise you to turn to a mediator. In this case, the Animation Team can be called first, since this problem has to do with a role play event.
What is a RP event?
It is an event in which players play the role of their character, both consistently and in compliance with the Lore of Ryzom. In this type of event, friendships between players should not be taken into account: this is the game's story, and the experiences of the characters dictate their conduct.
What is an non-RP event?
This is an event that is not bound to the coherence of the story or the characters lives and experiences. A non-RP event is above all a good time shared by all players who want nothing but to have fun together. During such an event, the game's story and the experiences of the characters are of no importance. Only the feel of the moment matters.
Intrusion in an out of roleplay (HRP/OCC) manner in a roleplay event (RP/IC) is equally as condemnable as disrespectful roleplay at a non-roleplay event .
What is an assembly and what is the scope of its decisions?
Each nation is represented by assemblies consisting of players and led by an animator. These assemblies meet regularly and may issue "laws" on their territory. These "laws" are often offered by the players themselves but must be approved by the animator (which refers to the Animation Team), as a safeguard and assurance of compliance with the Lore. A meeting is a RP event. Its "laws" have a roleplay effect.
What can we learn about the Marauders from the Lore?
During the first Swarm (long before the time of your characters), many homins, helped by the Powers were able to flee the Old Lands and create Nations in the New Lands. The remaining homins stuck on the Old Lands survived with difficulty amidst the kitins. A homin, Melkiar united them under the name Marauders; to them and to Melkiar, the homins of the New Lands and the Powers had abandoned them to the claws of the kitins. That is why they are eager for revenge and vengeance.
The Marauders from the Old Lands have recruited angry homins in the New Lands and have indoctrinated them to serve their plans. Among these new Marauders, one can not only find idealists who really believe in Melkiar words, but also opportunists who seek to take advantage of their power and their technology. They also harbor in their midst people who are researched by the law, therefore avoiding prison and having a way to give free rein to their violent impulses.( http://atys.ryzom.com/projects/puben/wiki/L_Marauder_Civilization
http://app.ryzom.com/app_lore/index.php?page=/projects/puben/wiki /L_Marauder )
Roleplaywise, the Marauders of the New Lands are not nice guys but, on the contrary, are the villains of the story, agitators, and criminals. It is possible that amongst the Marauders, some have expressed doubts and have a different point of view, but the Marauders are seen by the homins of the Nations as villains. They are bandits who are unwelcome who will be chased with pikes when they are identified.
This RP view is also supported by the gameplay which requires every Marauder to be hated by every nation and religion (very negative reputation) and then to kill six Homins before advancing in his rite to be accepted as a Marauder in the New Lands.
Marauders and Tryker market
In this RP context, a Nation (here the Tryker nation) creating laws stating that the Marauders are unwelcome on their land and that if they come to market (a RP event), they will be hunted, is legitimate, logical, and consistent.
Also such a RP context, the fact that the Marauders are not interested in or violate the laws of a Nation they do not recognize is legitimate, logical and consistent.
Therefore, if the Marauders come on Fair Haven's market despite the ban, it is normal that the guards try to chase or to kill them, and it also is consistent that the merchants refuse to sell anything (unless doing so under duress ...).
Specifically, nothing in the gameplay prohibits Marauder players from coming to market; we will however be asking the players to respect the roleplaying side of the event, and not to disrupt it by harassing via PVP (as opposed to possibly exchanging a few words, fighting a little, then leaving).
What about the right to play as you want and where you want?
Again, it is a matter of respect. The freedom of one person ends where someone else's freedom begins. Marauder players have the right to participate in a market, whether it is for gameplay reasons or roleplay reasons. Having the Marauders do some short RP raids on the market in retaliation would be reasonable, but having the battle shift onto the non-roleplay level and become a verbal battle between players, escalating to exclusion of players from a future non-roleplay event is not. That would be the beginning of an escalation endless and harmful to all.
Why not, for example, enjoy the Black Market in Darkmoor that is intended to be HRP and therefore open to all? Or prepare a RP "Mister Marauder" event, excluding any non-participant marauder?
What if the conflict does not abate?
If, despite this, things continue to go wrong, the Support Team is here to advise and enforce the proper rules of courtesy. If there are problems, it may have to impose sanctions ranging from a warning to a permanent ban, based on the previous record of the player.
We hope this information will help you.Code of Conduct: Courtesy in the game
1. Harassment of any kind is forbidden.
2. You may not hinder another player during his play.
3. You must maintain respectful behavior toward other players and Customer Service Representative.
...
6. You may not hide behind roleplay to justify courtesy rule transgession.
And do not forget that Ryzom is a game! [/OOC]
With all due respect Tamarea and the animation team, I can understand the delicate position you are in. Despite this, I will be so bold as to say that your response was, in my humble opinion, void of any consideration of the gameplay in Arispotle.
And why should it be? Well, we were all forced together from different servers in the merge out of necessity. Along with us and our empty inventories and GHs, we brought our own Lore and our own individual approaches to gameplay and RP. And it is you guys, up there, looking down on us all that should be more than well aware and should have anticipated clashes in interpretation of the Lore and its implementation in game. You failed to combine the developments of the Lore of different servers in a coherent manner so as to avoid clashes. I can accept that it was probably easier for you to leave it in our hands, but the result is that there is a great deal of animosity between different server players who feel strongly that THEIR approach is the correct approach. This, in my opinion, could have been avoided.
You said:
Tamarea
...it is a matter of respect. The freedom of one person ends where someone else's freedom begins.
A very wise thing to say. In theory its very simple and common sense. In practice, I will give you a specific example of where I was not respected as Elvanae from Arispotle:
- A number of French Karavan players/guilds approached the other karavan, post-merge, to say that we are not permitted from having contact with Kami players or trading with them etc (some of whom are long time friends from Ari) and if continued to do so, they would not share OP mats (back when we had mats worth sharing) and would not support the guilds who did this.
I'm not sure what you would say about that. My own personal opinion is that that particular scenario was basically bullying and threatening to those players who just wanted to interract with their friends and saw it as their right to be able to do so. On the other hand, the french players were clearly very strict on RP. The point of this is to show that these people could be argued to merely be observing RP rules. On the other hand, it was in practice, an attempt to bully us into changing our gameplay and the significant point here is, that they were in fact in a position of power to do so since they actually owned Outposts.
I feel strongly that there are major issues that we face now in this merged server. What time has shown is that we are still struggling to engage with one another in a harmonious way in order that we all enjoy the game as we used to pre-merge. But pre-merger days are gone and we need to adapt to this. All the players from the servers need to, not just Ari with their lenient RPing.
I would like to think that, IF THEY WANTED TO, RPers could find any number of reasons to allow the Marauders, in this situation, to participate in the Fair. Virg did, indeed, attempt to approach the situation from an RP perspective in previous forum posts.
Clearly, the strict RPers do not want to compromise. They do not take into consideration the histories from thi Ari server. They say that a lenient Ari RP gameplay will kill the game because they threaten to leave. And I will be shot down for saying this, these RPers are getting the full support from people who really should be impartial.
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